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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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bluedevil907
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
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Wow, great post. I realized a few tells in my own plays just from thinking about my "conversations" and the messages I was sending. That set tell is one in particular I've learned to pick up on, and it has saved me tons of chips and tournament lives by smelling out that check/AI nonsense.
Would you say the speed at which a player makes his decision also adds something to the "coversation"? Obviously it would be a bit harder to tell since there's plenty of people who multi-table and won't respond in the first 10 seconds or so, but how about players making quick clicks of the button? Would a pause and a call be any different from a speedy one?
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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GENERALLY, and I stress Generally... people who bet lightning fast (especially after the flop) Don't want to be called. And typically people who think for longer than they normally think and then make an agressive move have a very strong to nut hand.
Look at it like this. What hand can you have (for the lighning fast post flop bet) where you could bet basically without thinking or even really looking at the flop? Even if I have AA I want to SEE what flopped, I want to THINK for a second about how to play the hand. Are there draws, should I bet more or less, etc. The only time you truly don't care what the flop is, is when you ALREADY planned to bet no matter what comes. And more than half the time that means bluff or semi-bluff (with AK for instance).
The opposite is true of nut hand. BAM! you flop a full house. Now what? "OK, how much should I bet to mask my hand and make some money? If I check will someone else bet for me? Who's in the hand?" All of a sudden you need to think. And that's true for most players. And often, you'll get the think... check... Quick Call or Quick Min Raise (if it's on the flop). On the river it will be a think... bet (a strange amount, whether value or all in). But if someone thinks for a long time and then you bet TPTK on the flop and they quickly call. Watch out! It will be followed by another check/call and then a big bet on the river (or big raise depending on their position). That's a made nut hand all day.
(these examples are for NL ring play. MTT and SnG's have some unique "weather patterns" based on situations. And Limit... Ummm how do I say this? In my version of hell, the Devil meets me at the door and says, "You get to play poker for eternity.... But it's LIMIT! AARRGGGHH!" In other words I don't play limit.)
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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There's another converstion that gets us Tight-Aggressives in trouble too.
You have AK and bet 5x preflop, "I like my hand".
The flop is K 9 5 and you bet the full pot, "I'm going to win".
He calls.
You push all-in on the turn.
Here you're too busy "yelling" to listen to anything being said in the conversation.
You may take it down, but you're going to get caught eventually for your whole stack. You have to give your opponent a chance to speak. He might have a great hand, but by betting the full pot on the flop, you're betting for him, and he doesn't need to bet on his own. On the turn you're still too busy yelling with a push.
By betting strong, but less than the pot, you give your opponent to speak up if he wants to tell you you're beat. And by betting the strong, but less than the full pot on the turn, you give him a second opportunity. Most players can't resist the urge to raise with the nuts by the turn. They key is to listen to what is being said. Even when you have a strong hand, you still have to engage the converstion. Only by listening, will you know when to accept that you might be beat...there are ALWAYS other places to beat your opponent in a ring game .
EasyT
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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I remember one session where I did this - shouted with strong hands, didn't give others a chance to speak, gave them plenty of room to hide monster flopped hands. Result 3600 loss. And every hand I was certain I had the best hand, and way too often I got outflopped by a set, flush, straight, even a flopped Full House. That's where I learned to speak but give the other guy a little room too.
if you make a 3/4 pot sized bet and get raised, it's time to listen.
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Dunk
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Metrowest Massachusetts
Posts: 131
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Great stuff. I'll definitely have to look at your other excerpts on the edudlive site.
Thanks for writing and posting!
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Note: new guy and very open to constructive criticism, so go ahead and weigh in! I'm here to learn.
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