|
supa
|
06-18-2010, 02:23 AM
Post subject: 77 utg
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 985
|
|
Villain is 40/13/20 over 60 hands so has a fairly wide range preflop including J9.I pretty much played my typical line when I think I'm ahead hoping to get all the chips in by the river.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($6.16)
BB ($1.78)
Hero (UTG) ($3.20)
MP1 ($2.49)
MP2 ($1.89)
CO ($2.45)
Button ($0.89)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with  , 
Hero bets $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds
Flop: ($0.27)  ,  ,  (3 players)
Hero bets $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, 1 fold
Turn: ($0.67)  (2 players)
Hero bets $0.44, MP1 calls $0.44
River: ($1.55)  (2 players)
Hero???
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Your turn bet size could be better. You've left $1.77 behind in a $1.55 river pot. Betting $0.54 on the turn would leave $1.67 behind in a $1.75 river pot, and betting $0.64 on the turn would leave $1.57 behind in a $1.95 river pot. Either of these are a bit more favorable river scenarios and get more value out of draws.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
PlayToWin
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Either of these are a bit more favorable river scenarios and get more value out of draws.
|
Is this a good time for me to axe a question? So, let's assume our bet sizing is good and we are ready to bet the river for value. However, we know villian is a CS (calling station), and the flush completes on the river. Do we go ahead with our value bet as planned, make a smaller blocking-bet, check-call, check-fold? This is a common scenario and has probably been discussed many times. One more won't hurt. 
|
|
Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Is this a good time for me to axe a question? So, let's assume our bet sizing is good and we are ready to bet the river for value. However, we know villian is a CS (calling station), and the flush completes on the river. Do we go ahead with our value bet as planned, make a smaller blocking-bet, check-call, check-fold? This is a common scenario and has probably been discussed many times. One more won't hurt. |
Put your opponent on a range, decide how they play that range, and then the answer falls into your lap.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
paratrooper99
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 135
|
|
If he has J9, just bad luck. I would see a flush as more probable with his playing of the hand. on flop if i have the nuts and there are 2 clubs on board, your going to pay to get a third, right? I reraise there almost every time. I would either check/crying call up to pot sized bet or block bet/ fold to reraise.
|
|
|
|
cleanup.that
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 106
|
|
Shove.that
|
|
You wanna die? Run on up on that black Seven forty-five.
|
|
Hoopy
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverballs
Posts: 777
|
|
If you want stacks in on the river then you have to bet bigger on the turn, he's not folding draws (9x,XcXc) for a $0.60 bet.
For the river give him a range, decide how he plays it and choose the best option.
|
|
|
|
Outlaw
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
|
|
Overbet the flop.. every hand that will call .20 will call a ton more. After that the hand is cake to play.
|
|
|
|
supa
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 985
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Your turn bet size could be better. You've left $1.77 behind in a $1.55 river pot. Betting $0.54 on the turn would leave $1.67 behind in a $1.75 river pot, and betting $0.64 on the turn would leave $1.57 behind in a $1.95 river pot. Either of these are a bit more favorable river scenarios and get more value out of draws.
|
This is a huge leak in my play.I'm not paying enough attention to whats left behind.Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Illfavor
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
|
|
overbet fo sho
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by supahaole
This is a huge leak in my play.I'm not paying enough attention to whats left behind.Thank you.
|
Side note, but going from the flop to the turn, if you set up a turn SPR of 4 or less, then you can get the rest of the money in on the turn/river without having to overbet the pot. For example, suppose the flop pot is $0.50 with $4.75 left behind. Then betting $0.25 (or more) heads-up sets up a turn pot of $1 (or more) with $4 (or less) left behind, for an SPR of less than or equal to 4. If the turn pot is $1 heads-up with $4 behind and you bet pot, the river pot will be $3 with $3 left behind, etc.
Similarly, in a heads-up pot, a flop SPR of 13 or less before any betting means you can get all of the money in over 3 streets of betting without overbetting the pot at any point.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
y are we open raising mid/small pp's utg FR at 2nl? Is it a nitty 2nl table lol??
|
|
|
|
rpm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
|
|
because it's super profitable and open limping is bad for the soul
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
y are we open raising mid/small pp's utg FR at 2nl? Is it a nitty 2nl table lol??
|
Open limping sucks in NLHE.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
well we open raise pocket pairs because we have fold equity, and we're not getting paid very often when we limp and hit our big hands, right?
Does any argument about open raising pocket pairs in EP really hold true for 2nl
|
|
|
|
supa
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 985
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
well we open raise pocket pairs because we have fold equity, and we're not getting paid very often when we limp and hit our big hands, right?
Does any argument about open raising pocket pairs in EP really hold true for 2nl
|
Renton's 169 hand SS-NLHE ring strategy: Preflop
Starting hand strategy for tight games
I think its important, even for novices, to be able to adjust to tight or loose games. My preflop strategy in a tight game is not much different from a loose game except for a few factors:
-I open (raise first in) with all pocket pairs in all positions. As games get tighter, the ability to take away the pot on the flop with a continuation bet becomes greater. Also, if you elevate the stakes with a small pocket pair by raising preflop, you’ll have a much easier time getting all in with it after the flop, even if you are out of position when you hit your set.
|
|
|
|
JKDS
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
|
|
A huge mistake many many players make at 2nl is that they call to much preflop and fold too much post. Ie, they are exploited very easily by just raising pre and continuation betting.
If i wanted to exploit this mistake without weakening my utg range too much, id probably add a bunch of pocket pairs and suited broadway hands. Pocket pairs mainly because they are extremly easy to play post flop oop: cbet--> did they fold? no? --> do i have set? no? --> fold
Also its not like we're gonna be called by 3-4 players every time...i know that certainly wasnt the case when i was there just 3 weeks ago. Also we arent gonna be floated too often so we'll know exactly where were at if they call a cbet.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
|
|
|
EasyPoker
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
|
|
Not sure about overbetting the flop, but certainly bet pot as a minimum. Same with turn. Bet river too, but fold to a raise.
|
|
[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
|
|
daven
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
|
|
shove turn. If not, why not?
|
|
|
|
rpm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
|
|
because this may cause our villain to fold OESDs and flush draws which we are likely to get a lot of value from if we bet pot?
|
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
y are we open raising mid/small pp's utg FR at 2nl[/B]? Is it a nitty 2nl table lol??[/B]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by supahaole
Renton's 169 hand SS-NLHE ring strategy: Preflop
Starting hand strategy for tight games
I think its important, even for novices, to be able to adjust to tight or loose games. My preflop strategy in a tight game is not much different from a loose game except for a few factors:
-I open (raise first in) with all pocket pairs in all positions. As games get tighter, the ability to take away the pot on the flop with a continuation bet becomes greater. Also, if you elevate the stakes with a small pocket pair by raising preflop, you’ll have a much easier time getting all in with it after the flop, even if you are out of position when you hit your set.
|
Yeah you should open raise if it's a tight table, just I don't see many of those at 2nl
|
|
|
|
rpm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
|
|
"Also, if you elevate the stakes with a small pocket pair by raising preflop, you’ll have a much easier time getting all in with it after the flop, even if you are out of position when you hit your set."
|
|
|
|
cleanup.that
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 106
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
A huge mistake many many players make at 2nl is that they call to much preflop and fold too much post. Ie, they are exploited very easily by just raising pre and continuation betting.
|
People really fold too much at 2nl? I think I hardly ever c bet at that level tbh
|
|
You wanna die? Run on up on that black Seven forty-five.
|
|
JKDS
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
|
|
Well, how often does someone with a really wide range connect on a board well enough to continue in the face of aggression?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
"Also, if you elevate the stakes with a small pocket pair by raising preflop, you’ll have a much easier time getting all in with it after the flop, even if you are out of position when you hit your set."
|
Yeah, I get this, but I think that at a std 2nl table we get payed off so much when we flop a set that we can stack them if the pot is raised or unraised, IP or not
|
|
|
|
rpm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
|
|
its alot harder to get someone's stack in the middle, even when only 100bb deep, in a limped preflop pot. depending on how many limpers there are, even if you pot every street you may not get it all in by the river. and some villains may fold top pair hands to a PSB on every street. it becomes especially hard because the play is typically so passive, so villains are less likely to help you get it in by betting or raising, and are far more likely to be checking and calling. this isn't even taking into account that you will sometimes be able to bluff good boards, like say AJx, or showdown the best hand when you check down 77 or whatever. that's my take anyway.
|
|
|
|
daven
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
because this may cause our villain to fold OESDs and flush draws which we are likely to get a lot of value from if we bet pot?
|
a lot of micro villains struggle to fold draws here regardless of sizing. Also, what if we're bad enough to not know what to do when draws complete on the river? aren't we gonna pay them off and give them implied odds on the turn?
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
open limping sucks in most online nlhe games because the table dynamic is almost always unfavorable for it.
|
fyp
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
fyp
|
Obv I agree.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
fyp
|
I agree too, but I think some dynamics at 2nl are so absurd that I think it can sometimes be the best play
|
|
|
|
Outlaw
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanup.that
People really fold too much at 2nl? I think I hardly ever c bet at that level tbh
|
I think the biggest winner at 2NL cbets ike 90%.. blackrain or somebody.
Kinda laughing at myself for calling anyone that plays 1 million 2nl hands a "winner"
|
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
I think the biggest winner at 2NL cbets ike 90%.. blackrain or somebody.
Kinda laughing at myself for calling anyone that plays 1 million 2nl hands a "winner"
|
Well I'm guessing hes running like 7/7 and just continues valuebetting post?
|
|
|
|
Outlaw
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
|
|
I'm not sure, don't have any hands on him. But this BlackRain79 Poker Player Report Card at PokerStars
Please delete this mods if its not cool to post this site on here. I've seen other people post it in the past so I am assuming its ok.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanup.that
People really fold too much at 2nl? I think I hardly ever c bet at that level tbh
|
It's counter-intuitive, but the counter for loose/passive play is to bet/fold a lot. Build a lot of pots and build a strong feel for when the critical bet goes into the pot from the perspective of your opponent.
You can't bluff a calling station, but you sure as hell can bluff someone who plays loose on the small streets, a lot tighter on the big streets and won't play back at you light unless he has a hand or is running out of chips.
|
|
|
|
PlayToWin
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
Well I'm guessing hes running like 7/7 and just continues valuebetting post?
|
I've played this guy. He's now a reg at 5NL. I'm not on my own computer right now so I don't have my HEM database. But he's good. He's got a tight range and he doesn't spew.
|
|
Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
