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6max NL10, Question about QQ in general

  
 
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Illfavor
Old 11-09-2008, 03:00 AM     Post subject: 6max NL10, Question about QQ in general #1 (permalink)  
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 How often should I be folding this? Without reads? Even with reads that the vill is a nit?

The question comes from my recent trouble with this hand. I've repeatedly lost entire buy-ins getting it in pre-flop with this hand. I'd post a HH but they all essentially go like this, "Vill raises, I re-pop, Vill shoves, I sigh and call. Vill has AK, KK, or AA and I'm down a buy-in." Should I be giving my opps more cred? It's really hard for me to put them on that exact range at these stakes I feel, but maybe not. (is that accurate?)

This may just be a knee-jerk reaction to my recent, very limited, total decimation with this hand, but it's still a question I have in general.
Essentially, How often are you folding QQ preflop at NL10 6max?
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kb coolman
Old 11-09-2008, 03:20 AM     Post subject: Re: 6max NL10, Question about QQ in general #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illfavor
How often are you folding QQ preflop at NL10
w/o reads on the villan? Never. Against a total nit? Depends on stack size. BUT... Don't over-generalize the hand. It's not the nuts, but it's +EV. Can you honestly say that over your entire HH w/ QQ is -EV? Not a chance.

Just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNz-Duyx3Lc
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Illfavor
Old 11-09-2008, 03:28 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Yea, as I said, probably just a bad reaction.

That vid is siiick.
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Hawk
Old 11-09-2008, 04:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Well, take a look at the math of the situation. fwiw, I pretty much agree with your range for villain there.

I'll use a recent hand of mine for the actual numbers.

I don't have many hands with this villain, but so far he seems like a straightforward tagg. I have no reason to think he's getting out of line here.

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($52.30)
UTG+1 ($27.65)
CO ($73.80)
BTN ($78.55)
SB ($56.00)
Hero ($51.75)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $10, CO folds, SB raises to $56, Hero calls $41.75

After villain pushes I need to call another $41.75 with $62.25 in the pot already. (He had me covered, he really only has $51.75 in the pot there)

This puts the pot odds at 1.49:1.

Then pokerstove QQ vs his range:
Code:
	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	39.857%  	39.64% 	00.22% 	     114030168 	   626394.00   { QQ }
Hand 1: 	60.143%  	59.92% 	00.22% 	     172384116 	   626394.00   { KK+, AKs, AKo }
This works out to a hair over 1.5:1 against you. That's pretty damn close to an 0 ev for folding and calling. If you think QQ is part of his range to, it's also just about a 0ev decision either way, but this time you are very slightly getting the better side it.

The reason I call is the added chance that he could be bluffing. I don't think it's very likely, but if this is ever a bluff, or if you have a read to put villain on a wider range, I think this turns into an easy call.

Notice this is 100bb deep. Deeper and you won't be getting odds to call, shorter and its an easy call.
 
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Illfavor
Old 11-09-2008, 05:52 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Thanks for that post. Very insightful.
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Stacks
Old 11-09-2008, 06:08 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 If you feel you aren't ahead of villains 3b calling range or their 4betting range then you are better off calling their open with QQ than 3betting. But I don't play 6m so I'm not sure how the ranges are adjusted for it.
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L_Clan_Sup3rMaN
Old 11-09-2008, 09:10 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I needed a read to not get it in preflop with QQ at the micros. Think the amount of times I folded QQ preflop 25NL and below could be counted with your fingers.
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