66 flop set... fold turn??

**gotigers1234** · 05-15-2012 01:06 PM

Dude was an unknown only 3 hands so far and nothing to note. He did tank when I raised him on the flop.

Merge Network $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players -

BTN: $1.86
SB: $4.30
BB: $1.69
UTG: $2.86
UTG+1: $3.69
MP1: $4.45
Hero (MP2): $7.60
CO: $2.68

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is MP2 with 6

6

UTG calls $0.04, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.28, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.64) 6

8

7

(2 players)
SB bets $0.32, Hero raises to $0.96, SB calls $0.64

Turn: ($2.56) J

(2 players)
SB bets $1.28,???? Hero raises to $6.36 ??all in, SB calls $1.78 all in

River: ($8.68) 9

(2 players - 2 are all in)

After looking back he tanks my flop raise then fires pretty strong on the turn. He is repping the nuts here right?? Can we fold this turn or the fact that he is unknown we need to call down? I overjammed but should I have just called turn?? I was confused after he flatted my flop raise then donked the turn. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

**Fielmann** · 05-15-2012 02:24 PM

Raise bigger on flop to set up a pot-sized shove on turn and to protect vs straight draws. Turn is fine as played. Don't fold, no draws hit.

**Luco** · 05-15-2012 02:27 PM

Given that overpairs are still part of villain's range, I doubt I could fold that turn.

Just because he showed up with 45 this time doesn't mean you played the hand badly.

**d0zer** · 05-15-2012 02:47 PM

no don't fold the turn wtf we have equity vs the nuts and his range is wider than nutsnutsnuts.

**gotigers1234** · 05-15-2012 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by d0zer

no don't fold the turn wtf we have equity vs the nuts and his range is wider than nutsnutsnuts.

I guess I am just second guessing myself b/c of the results. When you say we have equity against the nuts what does that mean? Do you mean like we have outs against it? Thank you for your time sir.

**d0zer** · 05-15-2012 04:05 PM

yes, outs contribute to your equity. pokerstove gives you equity #s.

If we had AdAs on an unpaired turn that had three clubs, we would have zero equity against the nuts.

**Luco** · 05-15-2012 04:09 PM

In this specific hand, Daven means we have 10(?) outs to draw to a FH vs a straight.

**MadMojoMonkey** · 05-15-2012 04:13 PM

He means: even if Villain has a made straight w/ FD on the turn, we have outs: The 6h makes quads (one card), the { 8s, 8h, 8d, 7s, 7d, 7c, Js, Jh, Jc } makes full house (9 cards). We have 10 outs to improve, which is 10/46 = 21.7%

...and that's IF Villain flopped a straight, 'cause they sure didn't get there on the turn. If Villain has a set, it's bigger than Hero's and that's a cooler, and *sigh*. anything less and Hero is already ahead and V-towning.

**OngBonga** · 05-15-2012 05:23 PM

If he can do this with T9 pre, then he can have lots of hands, like 2pr, sets, overpairs and bluffs. We beat this range.

If he's more straightforward pre flop, esp on the sb, the worst post flop position on the table, then we can give him JJ+. We beat this range also.

I wouldn't fold this against anyone.

**Mr. Bucket** · 05-15-2012 05:40 PM

is it ok to just limp behind pre given original caller's stack size?

**BorisTheSpider** · 05-15-2012 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bucket

is it ok to just limp behind pre given original caller's stack size?

I am coming to prefer just overlimping here, especially in a passive game where we won't be bluffing much postflop, might as well just see a cheap flop and try and flop something we can extract with and if we don't hit we got in at like 30% of the cost of a raised pot. In a more aggressive game, raise or fold, don't end up limp-calling or limp-folding OOP to setmine, as that sucks.

As for the hand as played, you can't fold here. Get your money in, and don't sweat the outcome. Guessing he had JJ? Otherwise, as Ong said, if he'd 3bet the other pp that flopped a set here, and he tanked fearing the straight himself, then he can have tons of other stuff here that he'll get it in with.

**Robb** · 05-15-2012 11:23 PM

I like it. Well played. Raise pre, shovel turn.

05-15-2012 01:06 PM #1
gotigers1234 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2010 Posts 193 Location Looking at Mold	66 flop bottom set... fold turn?? Dude was an unknown only 3 hands so far and nothing to note. He did tank when I raised him on the flop. Merge Network $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - BTN: $1.86 SB: $4.30 BB: $1.69 UTG: $2.86 UTG+1: $3.69 MP1: $4.45 Hero (MP2): $7.60 CO: $2.68 Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is MP2 with 6 6 UTG calls $0.04, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.28, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.16 Flop: ($0.64) 6 8 7 (2 players) SB bets $0.32, Hero raises to $0.96, SB calls $0.64 Turn: ($2.56) J (2 players) SB bets $1.28,???? Hero raises to $6.36 ??all in, SB calls $1.78 all in River: ($8.68) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in) After looking back he tanks my flop raise then fires pretty strong on the turn. He is repping the nuts here right?? Can we fold this turn or the fact that he is unknown we need to call down? I overjammed but should I have just called turn?? I was confused after he flatted my flop raise then donked the turn. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
	Last edited by gotigers1234; 05-15-2012 at 01:09 PM.
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 02:24 PM #2
Fielmann View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2008 Posts 422	Raise bigger on flop to set up a pot-sized shove on turn and to protect vs straight draws. Turn is fine as played. Don't fold, no draws hit.
	Last edited by Fielmann; 05-15-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 02:27 PM #3
Luco View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Still a fish Join Date Mar 2009 Posts 2,302	Given that overpairs are still part of villain's range, I doubt I could fold that turn. Just because he showed up with 45 this time doesn't mean you played the hand badly.
	Last edited by Luco; 05-15-2012 at 03:06 PM. Originally Posted by spoonitnow Worse doesn't call, better doesn't fold, blah blah same shit different day.
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 02:47 PM #4
d0zer View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2007 Posts 4,223	no don't fold the turn wtf we have equity vs the nuts and his range is wider than nutsnutsnuts.

Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 03:58 PM #5
gotigers1234 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2010 Posts 193 Location Looking at Mold	Originally Posted by d0zer no don't fold the turn wtf we have equity vs the nuts and his range is wider than nutsnutsnuts. I guess I am just second guessing myself b/c of the results. When you say we have equity against the nuts what does that mean? Do you mean like we have outs against it? Thank you for your time sir.

Reply With Quote

66 flop set... fold turn??

Thread Tools

Display

66 flop bottom set... fold turn??

Posting Permissions

05-15-2012 04:05 PM #6
d0zer View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2007 Posts 4,223	yes, outs contribute to your equity. pokerstove gives you equity #s. If we had AdAs on an unpaired turn that had three clubs, we would have zero equity against the nuts.

Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 04:09 PM #7
Luco View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Still a fish Join Date Mar 2009 Posts 2,302	In this specific hand, Daven means we have 10(?) outs to draw to a FH vs a straight.
	Originally Posted by spoonitnow Worse doesn't call, better doesn't fold, blah blah same shit different day.
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 04:13 PM #8
MadMojoMonkey View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 1,230 Location St Louis, MO	He means: even if Villain has a made straight w/ FD on the turn, we have outs: The 6h makes quads (one card), the { 8s, 8h, 8d, 7s, 7d, 7c, Js, Jh, Jc } makes full house (9 cards). We have 10 outs to improve, which is 10/46 = 21.7% ...and that's IF Villain flopped a straight, 'cause they sure didn't get there on the turn. If Villain has a set, it's bigger than Hero's and that's a cooler, and sigh. anything less and Hero is already ahead and V-towning.

Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 05:23 PM #9
OngBonga View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2010 Posts 5,306 Location England	If he can do this with T9 pre, then he can have lots of hands, like 2pr, sets, overpairs and bluffs. We beat this range. If he's more straightforward pre flop, esp on the sb, the worst post flop position on the table, then we can give him JJ+. We beat this range also. I wouldn't fold this against anyone.
	Originally Posted by wufwugy ongies gonna ong
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 05:40 PM #10
Mr. Bucket View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2010 Posts 110	is it ok to just limp behind pre given original caller's stack size?

Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 09:23 PM #11
BorisTheSpider View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 241 Location UK	Originally Posted by Mr. Bucket is it ok to just limp behind pre given original caller's stack size? I am coming to prefer just overlimping here, especially in a passive game where we won't be bluffing much postflop, might as well just see a cheap flop and try and flop something we can extract with and if we don't hit we got in at like 30% of the cost of a raised pot. In a more aggressive game, raise or fold, don't end up limp-calling or limp-folding OOP to setmine, as that sucks. As for the hand as played, you can't fold here. Get your money in, and don't sweat the outcome. Guessing he had JJ? Otherwise, as Ong said, if he'd 3bet the other pp that flopped a set here, and he tanked fearing the straight himself, then he can have tons of other stuff here that he'll get it in with.
	Last edited by BorisTheSpider; 05-15-2012 at 09:41 PM.
Reply With Quote

05-15-2012 11:23 PM #12
Robb View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2007 Posts 3,230	I like it. Well played. Raise pre, shovel turn.
	My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are sob so hard to play against
Reply With Quote