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animal_chin
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08-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Post subject: 6-Max vs. Other Games
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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So once I get my new laptop I will be playing on stars again. I have $80 on there and I want to get Poker Tracker and PAHud and start playing the $.02/.04 6-max games. I play little home SNG style games about once a week with my friends and there are usually 5 or 6 players so I feel that short handed game is the best. Now I vaguely recall something about 6+max being harder to turn a profit on because you are in more pots so the rake hits you more. Is this true? Will I notice it more if I move up in stakes where the people are better so my BB/100 would go down (when I am rolled for it of course).
Also, I am wondering what YOU think is the most profitable form of holdem. Now I know a person can win at anything, but is there a general consensus that MTTs seem to make more money for players than say SNGs or ring? Considering that each player is properly rolled for what ever he is trying to play. Is it easier to start making money playing SNGs but practice in ring pays off more than SNGs in the long run or what? When people are playing poker for a living do most grind ring or play SNGs or what? Or is this all a matter of personal preference? Just looking for opinions on this one.
And one last question. Lets say I play against Bob123 and he really sucks at playing $.01/.02 6-max and I keep some Poker Tracker stats on him. Bob123 gets better and moves up to $.25/.50 when I eventually get to $.25/.50 will Bob123 still have his old $.01/.02 stats when I see him at a $.25/.50 table? Or will he start with a clean slate?
Sorry if any of this is confusing I tend to ramble a lot.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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if you play good 6max is the most profitable b/c you get in the most hands possible vs. those who don't play as good as you. ppl sometimes tend to think that they need to be over-aggressive in 6max and this can definitely work to your advantage.
imo you should start off playing ring games. sng's are prob easiest to learn but there is more money to be made in ring games once you learn it well and you will have an easier time playing in tournaments than the tourney-heavy players have playing in ring games.
in pokertracker you can go to preferences and filter stats by stake levels so just filter your stats for $50nl and that's all you will see.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Not about what you're asking but kinda important: I would seriously suggest not buying PokerTracker or PAHUD until you're at least at 50nl. Put that money into your bankroll instead and it will be much better for you long term.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Really? I'm a rookie and I'm inclined to get PokerTracker right away so that I can start analyzing leaks ASAP and keep better track of opponents while spending less time making manual notes. I'm happy to hear more about this *before* I spring for PokerTracker!
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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get PT as soon as possible
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
get PT as soon as possible
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Why? What use is PT at 2nl-10nl for stats you can get just using the PokerStars software?
The value you get from more than doubling your bankroll is easily more than the value you get from getting PT and PAHUD with an $80 bankroll.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i think its a personal preference thing. i can see both sides.
getting it now:
-watch your aggression, winning/losing holdings, position stats
-get familiar with the s/w now
-grab GT+ and start making general reads about opponents pfr%, AF, vpip...stuff stars software will NOT tell you.
waiting until later:
-$50 (i forgot what it costs exactly) is how many BI's at $2NL? 25? i know you can buy in super deep there. so, maybe only 10 BI's, but still.
-the players at those levels are simply so bad that you dont even need reads, yet, on the fancier stuff. if you arent completely blind, you can spot the aggros and rocks and guys that are playing every hand.
-PT may make you "overly aware" for those levels; thus, creating "fancy play syndrome."
some things to think about.
i love my PT, but i do just fine when i dont turn on GT+, too. and, it IS a substantial portion of a starting bankroll. especially, if you cant chase bonuses like we used to.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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You don't need PT at 2nl, 5nl, or 10nl, or even arguably 25nl, though that's the level I would recommend getting it since the purchase price is no longer half your starting bankroll and you can start getting used to it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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pt is nice. get it whenever $50 isn't a big deal for you. fwiw i don't use an hud. they annoy the crap out of me and i don't have a lot of faith in stats unless there is a very large number of hands behind those stats. i'd rather just go through my pt database and check out lots of hands by ppl i've played 1000's of hands with.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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6 max softness is now a myth
Full ring nl and six max nl are both beatable at very reasonable (and similar) winrates.
The only real reason to play six max over full ring is because there are higher stakes six max games spread.
Honestly, for a bankroll builder i'd suggest full ring because its less swingy. Also, the slow pace of full ring nl will help you acquire discipline, patience, etc.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
6 max softness is now a myth
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true. you cannot just sit at a 6max table, roll your face on the keyboard, and profit.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
get PT as soon as possible
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Why? |
I think I'd want to analyze my play even if I was playing .01/.02
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
|
Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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I think you should get poker-tracker. If you don't know already, it will soon show you that playing K7s and A2o are not good ways to make money. Etc.
Play low stakes full-ring, and play tight, adjusting for tables where everyone is crazy tight, or just crazy. Suckouts will happen, but that's why you have a bankroll. You can play four tables comfortably cos you'll only very rarely be playing two hands at once (think VPIP 18ish and you'll understand why). You'll get a lot of hands into PT reasonably quickly this way too.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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You can get PT for free (although may be more difficult if you're in the states) so I'm not sure why you'd pay for it.
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Charas
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
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I found tracking software (Poker office in my case) a great help at micro levels to find out which hands are costing you money. Its not always obvious in the erratic games that take place at that level. If you do a sign up somewhere to get it for free make sure it's somewhere that doesn't do rakeback like Ipoker sites (or bodog if you're in the states). I screwed up a lot of potential rake back when I first started by signing up to poker rooms for free software, gifts etc. I'm regretting it now that I'm moving up a bit.
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