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Olddog21
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03-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Post subject: 6-handed or 9-handed
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#1 (permalink)
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Two Pair
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Falls Church Va.
Posts: 37
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When I first started playing online, I got into alot of 9-handed freerolls and lost alot of hands on the river. Now that I've found 6-handed games there's fewer people hoping to catch on the river. Is that because its tougher or better quality of player?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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I would say on average 6max play is harder than 9man play. But, it doesn't have anything to do with "fewer people hoping to catch on the river". It has to do with the wider ranges of hands that individuals are playing.
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I would say on average 6max play is harder than 9man play. But, it doesn't have anything to do with "fewer people hoping to catch on the river". It has to do with the wider ranges of hands that individuals are playing.
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I have to agree with Stacks here. However, keep in mind the more variables entered into a scenerio. The more the outcome will change. You have 1.5 times more people at a 9 handed table. The starting hand requirements and certainly going to open up.
I was originally trained at the short handed table. I find myself using the same starting hand requirements when sitting at a full table. This ends up showing a leak in my game, as I am playing to tight. I would say you need to evaluate which game is more profitable for you and stick with that one.
Xxxxx
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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Outlaw
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03-28-2009, 08:27 PM
Post subject: Re: 6-handed or 9-handed
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Olddog21
When I first started playing online, I got into alot of 9-handed freerolls and lost alot of hands on the river. Now that I've found 6-handed games there's fewer people hoping to catch on the river. Is that because its tougher or better quality of player?
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6-handed is more about isolating bad players and exploiting hand ranges. There may indeed be an overall better player pool at 6-max (unsure if this is even true) .. but even your average decent tagg is still a fish, at least at 25NL and below (I've never played higher than 25NL). A decent player at 9-handed games imo is usually more nitty and harder to exploit.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I would say on average 6max play is harder than 9man play. But, it doesn't have anything to do with "fewer people hoping to catch on the river". It has to do with the wider ranges of hands that individuals are playing.
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I have to agree with Stacks here. However, keep in mind the more variables entered into a scenerio. The more the outcome will change. You have 1.5 times more people at a 9 handed table. The starting hand requirements and certainly going to open up.
I was originally trained at the short handed table. I find myself using the same starting hand requirements when sitting at a full table. This ends up showing a leak in my game, as I am playing to tight. I would say you need to evaluate which game is more profitable for you and stick with that one.
Xxxxx |
I think you have it backwards.. The standards are that at a FR table (9-man) you usually play tighter than at a 6max table. This is what I was getting at by looser ranges. At a 6m table you have less people to play against, and therefore the starting hand "requirements" drop. So you should be playing a wider range of hands at 6m than you are FR.
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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Can you please explain to me why you believe it's logical to play looser at a FR (9man) table than at a 6max table?
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T-Rex
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 119
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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lol omg thats the wackiest thing ive ever heard hahah!
i hope hes joking!
I currently play 6 handed very well but just wondering the same thing as well which one is more profitable to grind out?
6 handed u play 4-6 tables
9 handed u play about 9-12 tables
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lytstephe
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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Can you please explain to me why you believe it's logical to play looser at a FR (9man) table than at a 6max table? |
What I think is he meant looser on hands that plays well in multiway pot, i.e. 99-, Axs, and SCs. I'd limp always with such hands in FR unless people are PFRing like crazy. I would definitely be tighter on ranked based hands in FR tho, i.e. not raise with QKo UTG or call a raise late pos. with AJo.
I wonder if someone has stats on their bb/100 over a good sample on both 6max and FR at the same stake?
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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Let's go back to the original post. My experience has shown me that the ranges are far wider at FR vs SH. My opponents ranges are far wider on a full table. I account this to be because there are 1.5 times the players and the lack of knowledge within said players. The stats I have posted above are exact and I am working on 500K hands. I wouldn't expect them to change much.
Xxxxx
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
Let's go back to the original post. My experience has shown me that the ranges are far wider at FR vs SH. My opponents ranges are far wider on a full table. I account this to be because there are 1.5 times the players and the lack of knowledge within said players. The stats I have posted above are exact and I am working on 500K hands. I wouldn't expect them to change much.
Xxxxx
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And my previous question remains: How does this make any sense to you? At a HU table, you would expect to play more hands than at a 6max table. At a 6m table, you would be expected to play more hands than at a FR table. So why are you saying that it is correct to have a wider range at FR than at 6max?
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lytstephe
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21
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And since my other topic got locked but I didn't really get my question answered here just yet, does anyone have a logic playing one over the other for PROFITABILITY reasons?
Perhaps some stats of someone playing both (at the same stake) and bb/100 for both?
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celtic123
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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Put simply. the more players. the tighter your ranges.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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2.4 players to the flop at 6 handed table is 40%
3.3 players to the flop at 9 handed table is 37% (rounded)
Therefore the average player at the 6 handed table is seeing more flops than at the 9 handed table. Which I think is the opposite of what you were trying to prove with your numbers.
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nickthefool
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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2.4 players to the flop at 6 handed table is 40%
3.3 players to the flop at 9 handed table is 37% (rounded)
Therefore the average player at the 6 handed table is seeing more flops than at the 9 handed table. Which I think is the opposite of what you were trying to prove with your numbers. |
I was just posting the numbers. I wasn't trying to prove anything. Just posting them for the purpose of discussing.
Xxxxx
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nickthefool
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
My starting hand requirements are much tighter and we indeed try to isolate certain players. I play the short handed table much tighter. Flop seen % is below 15. Where in the full table game I am at 17%. I average 2.4 players to the flop in the short and 3.3 in the full game (includes both 9/10 player). This is in a sample of 350,000 hands.
Xxxxx
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2.4 players to the flop at 6 handed table is 40%
3.3 players to the flop at 9 handed table is 37% (rounded)
Therefore the average player at the 6 handed table is seeing more flops than at the 9 handed table. Which I think is the opposite of what you were trying to prove with your numbers. |
I was just posting the numbers. I wasn't trying to prove anything. Just posting them for the purpose of discussing.
Xxxxx |
And we are trying to discuss.. And we say that you should be tighter at a FR table, and looser on a 6m table. You disagree. Why? Prove to us we are wrong.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Either you don't have a large enough sample to show whether you're tighter or not at full ring vs 6-max or you're doin' it wrong.
How many hands at 6-max? If you've only played a couple hundred then sure, you may have been tighter than your full ring sample. If you've been playing over a few thousand hands though your VPIP/PFR stats will be fairly accurate. Perhaps you should post your opening ranges for 6-max and full ring and we can see where you're missing value.
Btw if you're that guy in my database who runs 4/4 at 6-max, I love you.
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smitts187
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ontario canada
Posts: 161
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Btw if you're that guy in my database who runs 4/4 at 6-max, I love you.
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lol. this
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