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EasyPoker
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05-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Post subject: 5nl vs above avg reg
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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As stated, villain is a fairly strong reg with stats of 15/12/30 (agg) over 1.1k hands. I do have other notes on him, but they are saved on Stars rather than HEM...one thing I do remember though is that he often 3bets me when he faces me IP.
Given that, I just want to know whether I made the right decision here by calling his 3bet, rather than 4betting? Or am I looking to get it all on preflop with QQ vs this type of opp?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($1.95)
BB ($7.75)
UTG ($5.07)
MP ($5.46)
CO ($9.19)
Hero (Button) ($7.58)
Preflop: Hero is Button with  , 
3 folds, Hero bets $0.15, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.30
Flop: ($0.92)  ,  ,  (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold
Total pot: $0.92 | Rake: $0
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[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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please include 3bet stats if you are posting a hand for analysis where you are playing against a 3bet. especially if he is 3betting wider than average, as "he often 3bets me when he faces me IP." seems to suggest. i think calling's fine unless you know he will spazz and 5bet jam light or something, in which case 4bet/calling a shove is fine. i think you're pretty toast if he 5bet jams here so keeping his range wide isn't a bad thing.
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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Sorry, his 3bet stats are:
3-Bet: 4%
Fold to 4B: 0% (1)
I don't understand though, is that bracketed figure saying that in 1100 hands he's sat at a table with me, he's only had one opportunity to fold to a 4bet?
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[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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check this flop behind. you have SD value and you're not getting any value from JJ which is like the only hand in his range that you're ahead of, unless he's 3betting nines, which I doubt, but by potting the flop you're giving him a reason to fold those hands.
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Sorry, his 3bet stats are:
3-Bet: 4%
Fold to 4B: 0% (1)
I don't understand though, is that bracketed figure saying that in 1100 hands he's sat at a table with me, he's only had one opportunity to fold to a 4bet?
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i believe so, yes. and i agree with dozer about checking this flop back for way ahead/way behind reasons and to get value on later streets if there is any. there's not much he continues with that you beat when you bet this flop, and he certainly doesn't fold any worse.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
check this flop behind. you have SD value and you're not getting any value from JJ which is like the only hand in his range that you're ahead of, unless he's 3betting nines, which I doubt, but by potting the flop you're giving him a reason to fold those hands.
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If he checks this flop with JJ he wont fold to a flop bet imo, but I think it's still an obv check back regardless since there aren't 3 streets from JJ or 99 anyway, these hands are a small ass chunk of his range, and you get to induce a ton of bluffs.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
If he checks this flop with JJ he wont fold to a flop bet imo, but I think it's still an obv check back regardless since there aren't 3 streets from JJ or 99 anyway, these hands are a small ass chunk of his range, and you get to induce a ton of bluffs.
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He's more likely to fold it on the flop than he is on the turn or river after flop checks through. That's less true of good players.
As for inducing bluffs, I don't really expect a nit like this to bluff much, so I'd be more likely to interpret a turn bet as a failed flop c/r than a bluff, depending on sizing.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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I would 4 bet pre and fold to a shove.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
I would 4 bet pre and fold to a shove.
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Why?
I disagree strongly with your line but will explain after you explain
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Why?
I disagree strongly with your line but will explain after you explain
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So I don't get it in with an overpair postflop against aces or kings.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imthenewfish
so i don't get it in with an overpair postflop against aces or kings.
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wat
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
wat
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4 betting pre is kind of to figure out where you stand in the hand. I feel like I would spew chips in some post flop situations. I feel like it's kind of to keep myself from making a mistake that could cost me my stack.
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
4 betting pre is kind of to figure out where you stand in the hand. I feel like I would spew chips in some post flop situations. I feel like it's kind of to keep myself from making a mistake that could cost me my stack.
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ah 4-betting for information. I see you've studied under gabe kaplan.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
ah 4-betting for information. I see you've studied under gabe kaplan.
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Sorry I don't know who that is. Is it some inside joke or something?
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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I looked him up and hes the narrator guy from high stakes O_o
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
I looked him up and hes the narrator guy from high stakes O_o
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Sorry, I'm half drunk and being a bit of a dick, so to get this thread back on track...
Villain is pretty fucking nitty over a large sample, and I wouldn't expect him to stack off without QQ+,AK -- a range we're not exactly happy to get it in with.
4-betting communicates to him that basically we wanna get it in, it also gives him a reason to fold AQ, TT, JJ, and the odd time some random hand he just decided to 3bet with cuz we're opening light. So by calling his 3-bet, we keep his range wider, which we want.
The other thing to note is that we have position, and should expect this kind of villain to be fairly straightforward postflop, and at most fire one c-bet then give up. There's also the fact that we get a chance to suckout on KK+ if the board comes Qxx -- we're often gunna get a stack, but we're not JUST setmining here or anything...
So while 4-bet/folding may be easier than playing postflop IP, the latter is more +EV as long as we're not retarded postflop.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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This is why I disagree:
First, if we...
aw fuck d0zer says it all...damn his drunken advice
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
So while 4-bet/folding may be easier than playing postflop IP
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playing postflop IP is hard 
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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Want a cuddle?
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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kiwi. always spreading the FTR love (1). i think dozer's advice is sound. QQ is too strong a hand to 4bet and then have to fold imo (2). because villain probably doesn't even call a 4bet with JJ, and a lot of the time he jams (with KK+ exclusively) and makes us have to fold. this costs us a chance to stack villain on Qxx when he does have KK or AA, and also manipulates villain's range so that it has us crushed. @ imnewthefish, playing postflop IP is pretty easy here if you think about villain's tendencies and assign him a range accordingly. for one, he's a tight-aggressive "above average reg" player with pretty sane preflop tendencies, so we can assume he doesn't just turn suicidal postflop (because he's above average, and a reg). he 3bets 4% of his range against which we are usually only just a marginal favourite. if we 4bet, i imagine he only continues with like 2% of his range (KK+) and so 4betting makes sure he has us beat. we are only just ahead of his 3betting range (if at all) so we want to keep it that way by smoothing, especially because we have the positional advantage postflop. we always know what villain wants to do with his hand before he knows what we want to do. it makes the hand easier to play postflop, because we always have more information than villain does. in conclusion, i'm just posting here because it keeps me from starting my assignment which is due in two days, and i am essentially only repeating dozer's points.
(1) unless boog is involved
(2) i think we should almost never be 4bet/folding preflop in 100bb deep micro games.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
playing postflop IP is hard |
lol feeeeeesh
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Why isn't he ever flatting the 4 bet again? And if you do just call his 3 bet how do you know that he has TPTK on 942 rainbow flop or if he has an overpair? :/
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