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5nl Line check with Aces

  
 
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 12:13 AM     Post subject: 5nl Line check with Aces #1 (permalink)  
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I open for 4x utg and get 4 callers. MP1 is 19/6, MP2 is 33/17, BB is 76/0, all over about 20 hands. I raise the flop bet because I'll get lots of value from Kx, and I don't want to give draws good odds in a multiway pot. I lead for about half the pot on the turn HU against the flop caller for value from FD's and Kx, but I leave myself in a tricky situation where I'm giving myself pretty good odds, but I can't think of many hands that I can beat here. Am I being paranoid or is this fairly std?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($5.99)
MP1 ($5)
MP2 ($9.34)
CO ($1.73)
Button ($3.01)
SB ($4.11)
BB ($4.20)
Hero (UTG) ($5.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.20, MP2 calls $0.20, 3 folds, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.82) 8, K, 7 (4 players)
BB bets $0.15, Hero raises $0.80, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.80, 1 fold

Turn: ($2.57) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, MP2 raises $8.34 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $5.07
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philly and the phanatics
Old 06-26-2010, 12:24 AM #2 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
 Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,012 games 0.005 secs 202,400 games/sec

Board: 8s Kh 7s 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.423% 31.42% 00.00% 318 0.00 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 68.577% 68.58% 00.00% 694 0.00 { KK, 88-77, AKs, As6s, T9s, 87s, AKo }

you only need about 26% equity to make this a call...so yea call.. .
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spoonitnow
Old 06-26-2010, 12:45 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Raise flop harder (look at the odds you're giving people)

Bet turn harder, similar reasons

As played I get it in
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 02:20 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics View Post
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,012 games 0.005 secs 202,400 games/sec

Board: 8s Kh 7s 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.423% 31.42% 00.00% 318 0.00 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 68.577% 68.58% 00.00% 694 0.00 { KK, 88-77, AKs, As6s, T9s, 87s, AKo }

you only need about 26% equity to make this a call...so yea call.. .
Why does he raise turn instead of flop with AK though?
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Outlaw
Old 06-26-2010, 02:28 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I like more of a pot control call on the flop.. reevaluate turn. I am pretty sure you are going to get outflopped by one of these 4 guys.

Its a pretty easy fold on turn.
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daven
Old 06-26-2010, 02:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 i bet flop harder, turn is close but i think folding is ok. Reads based on 20 hands make this tough, meh, he just isn't bluffing very often
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 03:05 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven View Post
i bet flop harder, turn is close but i think folding is ok. Reads based on 20 hands make this tough, meh, he just isn't bluffing very often
Would you bet turn harder planning to get it in or bet a smallish amount planning on folding to a shove?
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philly and the phanatics
Old 06-26-2010, 03:36 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Would you bet turn harder planning to get it in or bet a smallish amount planning on folding to a shove?
with all the action infront of him i think a lot of ppl flat ak there
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 03:40 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics View Post
with all the action infront of him i think a lot of ppl flat ak there
yeah, but I think that most of those same people will flat the turn a lot
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rpm
Old 06-26-2010, 04:59 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 i agree with the bet more on flop comments. especially because it's the 76/0 we're isolating by doing so. when MP2 flats the flop i'm thinking his range is something like
77 (3)
88 (3)
AK (6)
A2-A6ss (5)
A9-AQss (5) (AKss is already counted under "AK")
78s (3)
T9s (4)
56s (4)

against this range, i imagine, you are in good shape. perhaps something like 55-60% equity. however when you lead the turn (after raising pre and raising flop), i doubt he is ever going to be trying to bluff you. turn range is probably something like
77 (3)
88 (3)
87s (3)
9Ts (4)
i actually think he probably jams all AK combos here for value and calls it a cooler if you have AA or a set. TPTK is pretty much the nuts to anyone who is likely bad enough at range reading to realise that AK is the very bottom of your current range. so add in AK (6)


Board: 7s 8s Kh 6h
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.373% 33.37% 00.00% 279 0.00 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 66.627% 66.63% 00.00% 557 0.00 { 88-77, AKs, T9s, 87s, AKo }

if i recall correctly you were calling 7 into roughly 12? so you would need about 37% (ish) equity, which you don't have.
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rpm
Old 06-26-2010, 05:00 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 actually he has way more flush draws on the flop but it's kind of irrelevant as played because i doubt he's jamming over your turn lead with any "non-made" hands.
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 05:03 AM #12 (permalink)  
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I was actually calling 2.85(He had me covered by a bit) to win 6.67. I've come to the conclusion that this hand is a call if we put AK in his range, and a fold if we don't.
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rpm
Old 06-26-2010, 05:14 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 shit i didnt even look at your stack, you're getting like 2.65:1. i'm a-callin.
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Outlaw
Old 06-26-2010, 01:08 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Why are we raising this flop here with only a pair of aces? Seems like our hand is marginal and we are trying to get it all in? Makes no sense. 2.65:1 on the turn doesn't seem good enough to call when we are either drawing dead or have at most 5 outs.
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Imthenewfish
Old 06-26-2010, 03:41 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
Why are we raising this flop here with only a pair of aces? Seems like our hand is marginal and we are trying to get it all in? Makes no sense. 2.65:1 on the turn doesn't seem good enough to call when we are either drawing dead or have at most 5 outs.
Value from Kx, FD's, OESD's, and maybe even 2nd pair
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Stacks
Old 06-26-2010, 03:48 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 Villain led $0.15 into $0.80. That's practically a check. It's a drawy board, so a raise is certain to get loads of value from worse, whereas a call gives the other 3 villains immaculate odds for just about any hand. Get some value, raise, isolate, do all that cool stuff.
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