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PlayToWin

12-05-2008, 06:31 AM Post subject: 5NL Hands to Review

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 606

I'm trying to follow proper BR management. I hit my 10NL BR Limit of $220 so I'll be playing 5NL for a while. I'd appreciate comments on my play.

Before you look at the hands, I have a question. Should I continue to buy-in for 100bb's ($5) or start with more at 5NL?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Villian had only seen 8 hands and he played every one. He was very donkey-like.

Hand 1:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($7.44)
BB ($5)
UTG ($9.02)
MP ($4.51)
Hero (CO) ($4.72)
Button ($9.93)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, Q

UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.15, MP calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.67) 4

, 8

, A

(3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.40, UTG calls $0.40, 1 fold

Turn: ($1.47) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

River: ($2.97) 3

(2 players)
UTG bets $1.35, Hero ???

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2: Villians first hand at the table.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10)
Hero (Button) ($9.49)
SB ($2.02)
BB ($10.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9

, K

UTG (poster) raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.65) 7

, 6

, K

(3 players)
SB bets $0.15, UTG calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15
*I just call the Flop because I missed my draw and I'm worried about my kicker.

Turn: ($1.10) 9

(3 players)
SB bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.45, SB calls $0.30
*Since Villian bet so small, I figured he was ready to fold, so I raised smaller than usual, hoping for a call. OK?

River: ($2) 3

(2 players)
SB bets $0.05, Hero raises to $0.45, SB calls $0.40
*This was just a value bet.

Total pot: $2.90 | Rake: $0.10
------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 3: My first hand at the table

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($7.37)
SB ($5.77)
Hero (BB) ($5)
UTG ($10.45)
MP ($6.10)
CO ($10.59)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

, K

3 folds, Button calls $0.05, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.15) 9

, 10

, K

(3 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, Button calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.75) 5

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, Button calls $0.40, SB calls $0.40

River: ($1.95) 7

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.45, Button calls $0.45, 1 fold
*I thought I was probably ahead, but with just one pair I decided it's better to win a small pot rather than risk too much. Too wimpy?

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Erpel

12-05-2008, 10:42 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

I'm spewy and I suck at poker. Here are my thoughts.

1. I like pretty much all of it and I'd call the river bet. Looking at the river bet in isolation if I win 23.8% of the time it's worth calling. If he's terribad I'll win at least that often as he'll play A4, Ax, 4x, 3x, any pocket pair and occasionally two random pretty cards often enough. His show of aggression could easily be any 8x hand but the bets are small enough that I think we have to continue with TPGK even on this board. I wouldn't raise turn or river as we'd then only be called by 8x hands.

2. I dislike pretty much all of it except preflop. The flop you have to raise imo - SB is pricing himself in for any drawing hand and with top pair you want people with drawing hands to continue at the wrong price. I'd raise maybe as much as to $1, but definitely no less than $0.8. With a vulnerable hand a fold is no bad result. The same logic applies on the turn - if he's on a drawing hand your raise allows him to continue at an attractive price to him. I would bet my two-pair hand strongly here to extract the maximum from drawing hands, worse two-pair hands and one-pair hands. I would raise to at least the size of the pot (before the small bet) - maybe as much as $1.5. On the river in the given situation I'd bet $1.5-$2 for value.

3. Preflop is fine. Flop I would play more aggressively. You probably have the best hand if noone improves - you may well be up against a lower pair. If people improve (including you) you may not be improving to the nuts. While it's unlikely anyone is holding AJ due to the preflop action a K-high straight would still not be the nut straight. And since a flush is possible you still want to price out flush draws. I would raise here to $0.7. Turn is fine to me. For river I would also agree with a smallish bet as there are two-pair hands possible. I would still probably not bet below $1 as played.

AFchung

12-05-2008, 04:25 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

1. hand 1 is good. call the river bet, he'll show up with weaker aces a lot

2. hand 2 uhm...i'd fold to an UTG raiser pre. he should have a decent hand here. if you really insist though, then you need to 3bet the button. raise the flop. why play K9 and if you hit you're not even gna be sure if you're good or not? raise the turn more. if they raise some donkish amount, pop it up towards the pot, not 3-4x their raise. river you have a really weak king, i'd just call here. all in all, dont play K9s unless you come in for a raise/3bet IP

3. raise preflop.

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

kettleofish

12-05-2008, 04:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Helllllo Richard

Posts: 333

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

2. hand 2 uhm...i'd fold to an UTG raiser pre. he should have a decent hand here. if you really insist though, then you need to 3bet the button. raise the flop. why play K9 and if you hit you're not even gna be sure if you're good or not? raise the turn more. if they raise some donkish amount, pop it up towards the pot, not 3-4x their raise. river you have a really weak king, i'd just call here. all in all, dont play K9s unless you come in for a raise/3bet IP

I disagree with quite a lot of this. For starters his 'really weak king' is two purrr on the turn and secondly in a 4 handed game I'm never 3-betting K9s OTB. In fact I'm not doing it any game. Why would u 3 bet a hand like this? It's not for value and it has decent postflop potential so why turn it into a bluff? Granted I'd probably like a little more info on villain before I called with it but preflop is fine imo. If you're gonna 3bet bluff do it with total trash.

OP, you definitely should raise the flop here as others have said. You haven't missed your draw at all, you have TP. Shit kicker granted, but on that sort of board you will get called by worse. Then it's easy to get it in vs the shortie on the turn (incidentally, villain here cannot have just sat down, since he's in the SB).

Hand 1 I think i'd just call river, rest of the hand is fine.

Hand 3 again raise flop, you can't call here with somebody still to act behind you on a wet board like that. B/f turn if your raise gets called. As played bet the river harder, not to be big and manly, but because you will get called by worse more often than they'll flip over better.

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

AFchung

12-05-2008, 05:45 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

Quote:

For starters his 'really weak king' is two purrr on the turn

my fault, i didnt notice he made 2 pair lol. 2/3rds - pot the river for value

Quote:

have you played 5NL? i 3 bet so light on the button, yet the only real thing i've seen villain do is 80% fold, 15% 4bet shove, 5% flat

Quote:

It's not for value and it has decent postflop potential

when you see a flop with K9s what are you hoping to see on the flop?

Quote:

Why would u 3 bet a hand like this?

Cbetting in position in 3bet pots when checked to maybe..?

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

PlayToWin

12-05-2008, 08:38 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by kettleofish

(incidentally, villain here cannot have just sat down, since he's in the SB).

You're right. I meant to say that he had only played 1 hand (before this one).

Thanks for the advice.

kettleofish

12-08-2008, 11:41 AM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Helllllo Richard

Posts: 333

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

have you played 5NL? i 3 bet so light on the button, yet the only real thing i've seen villain do is 80% fold, 15% 4bet shove, 5% flat

Quote:

It's not for value and it has decent postflop potential

when you see a flop with K9s what are you hoping to see on the flop?

Quote:

Why would u 3 bet a hand like this?

Cbetting in position in 3bet pots when checked to maybe..?

Sorry i didn't respond to this til now! Firstly ya I've played 5NL, this very year in fact. I realise ppl react differently to 3 bets, my main concern with 3betting this hand is that once your called u are pretty much crushed range-wise, especially by a villain who's mucking to 85% of 3 bets. Granted it's gonna be profitable to 3bet with almost anything to someone religously folding, the main point i was trying to make, albeit badly, is that 3betting this hand is obv a bluff, whereas i think u can get more value out of it by flatting.

In terms of what sort of flop I'm after, it depends largely on the villain. I should've stated that in my original post really. I'm folding this hand against an unknown villain. But, assuming i called, if it's somebody that's playing fit or fold, i'll be betting any flop if it's checked to me, or folding if he donks and the flop misses me entirely. If it's someone that can't fold i'll be betting most K high flops for value, and following up on most turns. The options are endless really given board texture, villain tendencies etc!

Regarding cbetting IP with this hand, fair enough but what do you do when the flop comes K high and the dude CRAI? I think there are pitfalls to this strategy (especially against somebody with a tight 3bet calling range) that will cost u more than simply calling PF would unless you are willing to fold a 9XX or KXX flop.

IMO summary (against an unknown): Folding > Calling > 3-Betting

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

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