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rong

03-28-2010, 10:28 PM Post subject: 5nl - fold KK?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

Villain is 31/0 over 13 hands. Only other stat is fold to cbet 50%(out of 4).

He flats my flop bet and then raises my psb on the turn. I find this hard to put down, but I am assuming this is a set or maybe QJ far more often than being something I'm ahead of. I mean this could easily be AcQc, but is anything else taking this line?

Is this an easy fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($10)
Button ($7.35)
SB ($5.93)
BB ($10.72)
Hero (UTG) ($5)
UTG+1 ($1.47)
MP1 ($9.47)
MP2 ($6.19)
MP3 ($7.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with

Hero bets $0.25, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.62)

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP3 calls $0.60

Turn: ($1.82)

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.55, MP3 raises to $4.05, Hero?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

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rong

03-28-2010, 10:39 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

Acually, I can see AcKc or KcTc here as well.

But still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

Dex

03-28-2010, 10:53 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Bringing the mind home.

Posts: 172

There's the range of hands he can have that connect with a board, and then there's the range of hands his actions seperate out - His calling and raising ranges are potentially very different. I can't see someone who is shaping up to be passive semi-bluff raising the turn with AcKc or KcTc.

How did Villain get his $7.75 stack?

rpm

03-29-2010, 12:56 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,039

i think you can find a fold here. you're crushed by his value range

Board: 3c 5h Jc Qd
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 10.390% 10.39% 00.00% 96 0.00 { KdKs }
Hand 1: 89.610% 89.61% 00.00% 828 0.00 { QQ-JJ, 55, 33, QJs, QJo }

and even as we add in the common flush draws you're still in trouble.

Board: 3c 5h Jc Qd
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 19.909% 19.91% 00.00% 219 0.00 { KdKs }
Hand 1: 80.091% 80.09% 00.00% 881 0.00 { QQ-JJ, 55, 33, AcKc, AcQc, AcTc, KcQc, QJs, QJo }

and he may not even call your cbet with some of those turned flush draws. especially the ones with only one overcard.

you need roughly 33% to continue. it's very exploitable to fold an overpair here if villains are good enough to exploit it but, to be honest i doubt this guy is. also, if he goes around trying to make unknowns fold overpairs at 5nl, he'll be busto pretty soon.

ljove

03-29-2010, 05:24 PM

#5 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

You can sit down with 10$ on Poker Stars 0.02-0.05

push all in he got AQ
Your bets are to weak.People pays 0.6$ with air on PS 0.01-0.02.

rong

03-29-2010, 08:20 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

The bets aren't weak. You're never (well hardly ever) going to get called with worse if you continually bet more than the pot.

I think you're spot on rpm. I can't see what else can be in villains range, so don't think a call is profitable.

Needless to say I called and he showed QJ. I was sure it was a fold at the time but curiosity got the better of me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

d0zer

03-29-2010, 08:36 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 2,518

against a passive player this is QJ or a slowplayed set 95% of the time.

Passive players don't semi-bluff. Repeat after me...

spoonitnow

03-29-2010, 09:55 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAronG

You're never (well hardly ever) going to get called with worse if you continually bet more than the pot.

If this is true why aren't you guys bluffing 2x the pot more often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

rong

03-29-2010, 10:20 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

OK. Let me rephrase.

I don't think betting larger than the pot is in general the most +ev play you can make. However there are bound to be times when it is. But I don't think this is one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

DrakaZ

03-30-2010, 01:05 PM

#10 (permalink)

High Card

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: Nancy - France

Posts: 11

I would have certainly called his raise on the turn because I would think he has something like KQ - Would it be a mistake to 3Bet with AQ pre? So I would have thought that he hit his pair, a double pair or set would surely have called instead of raising since the board is not very bad.

As played I call the turn and check/fold the river.

Note: I am a beginner in Poker so if my view is not very correct, don't insult me, just explain =]

Success is the result of perfection, hard work, learning from failure, loyalty and persistence

scfc_andy15

03-30-2010, 01:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 123

I dont think KQ is a big part of his range if there at all, judging by the fact that he called the flop bet which granted he could do with KQ but coupled with the fact that we have two kings the hand combinations where he has KQ go way down.
I think AQ might show up some of the time though, but I think on this hand beat more often than not on the turn.

"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."

Fnord

03-30-2010, 07:15 PM

#12 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Exploitive lines aside, betting full pot on a dryish board after you open UTG isn't good bet sizing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

rong

03-30-2010, 07:46 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Exploitive lines aside, betting full pot on a dryish board after you open UTG isn't good bet sizing.

Does 2 clubs and a potential (although unlikely) straight draw count as dry? I always bet the pot if there are two of a suit on a flop. How obvious does a draw have to be before it counts as a drawy board?

That sounds kinda sarky and antagonistic, it's not meant that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

ljove

03-30-2010, 11:52 PM

#14 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

against a passive player this is QJ or a slowplayed set 95% of the time.

Passive players don't semi-bluff. Repeat after me...

Passive players don't semi-bluff
But PS donks pays a lot on 0.01-0-02 tables.You just need to play up down up down wait your hand then push and get the money

Fnord

03-31-2010, 10:49 AM

#15 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljove

Passive players don't semi-bluff
But PS donks pays a lot on 0.01-0-02 tables.You just need to play up down up down wait your hand then push and get the money

Given the rake structure and terrible play, being that tight/passive isn't the way to win the max nor learn how to beat bigger games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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