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55 in BB, correct call?

  
 
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jaytoi
Old 02-07-2010, 04:00 AM     Post subject: 55 in BB, correct call? #1 (permalink)  
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Downloaded stove a while back now and plugged this hand in after.
No stats on "villian".

Preflop: Initially called to setmine, as he still had another $9.64 behind, and would hopefully stack off hitting his AK or having an overpair.

Flop : Even with 2 overs on the board I felt a call was in order, as I wouldn't put any 9s 8s or 2s in his PF raising range, even on the BTN. The bet was also unusually small, so it led me away from keeping big pairs like aa or kk in his range because i have a feeling he wouldn't want to give me odds to draw to a flush with them. Thought it more likely at this stage he was cbetting ak/aq or maybe even broadway cards.

Turn I would c/fold here now, as the 10 hits a lot of his range and he's unlikely to fire a second bullet into the pot here with just overs.
River I felt his bet here was a desperation bet as he's extremely unlikely to check the turn with a 10 and would have fired again on the turn with an overpair. So it was a call for me. I checked stove later and it turned out i had about 60 percent equity against his PF raising range on the river. So i think i had odds to call? IDK, im new to all this range stuff.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($3.40)
Button ($18)
SB ($10.05)
BB ($10)
UTG ($5.60)
Hero (UTG+1) ($8.25)
MP1 ($10.25)
MP2 ($7.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 5, 5
UTG calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 4 folds, SB bets $0.60, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.40) 8, 9, 2 (2 players)
SB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.90) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.90) 10 (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Total pot: $4.90

{Edited to convert the HH since you don't have 10 posts yet - spoonitnow}
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jaytoi
Old 02-07-2010, 04:03 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Scratch that , looks like i was UTG+1.
Im ready this time.
 
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jaytoi
Old 02-07-2010, 05:20 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Thanks spoonitnow
Im ready this time.
 
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kdawgy80
Old 02-07-2010, 05:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I like your plays here. Don't really have too big of a problem with most of it. You played it pretty sensibly. However, it is all a little weak tight for my taste. I think maybe you could have reraised on the flop or bet the turn hard. Personally, I like the latter better. The turn check may indicate he's running a bit scared with two overcards (AK?) and you may very well be able to get him off the hand right there. I'd have to believe if he has an overpair he'd bet out again on the turn knowing you may be willing to call a bet since you called the flop bet. And as much as the T may hit his range (I'm not sure it does as much as you give it credit for) it's certainly a scare card so a bet there may chase him out.

edit: sp
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speedcake
Old 02-07-2010, 07:08 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Fold this preflop.

limping and over limping is going to have you facing these isolation raises all the time. Maybe if you were in a later position yourself and had infoz that you could get away with limping behind, like on button and blinds are passive morans. Or you could iso the bad player yourself. But limping behind from UTG1 is no go.

Also, he may have had another 9.40 behind but u did not.
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kiwiMark
Old 02-07-2010, 07:12 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Preflop, you shouldn't be limping, I'd iso-raise 55 to 5BB, here. Makes it much easier to get stacks in when you do hit a set.

On the flop, if we're completely without reads then I generally play fit and fold, but I agree it's a very small bet, and so I don't mind calling one street here.

On the river I think as well as bluffs you should be including hands in his range like, for example, A9, which bet the flop, got scared by the T on the turn, but then decided it was unlikely you had a T when another one came on the river. Just something to think about.



Quote:
think maybe you could have reraised on the flop or bet the turn hard. Personally, I like the latter better. The turn check may indicate he's running a bit scared with two overcards (AK?) and you may very well be able to get him off the hand right there.
We don't want villain to fold AK. We beat AK. If you mean "you may very well be able to get him to put more money in with a worse hand right here" then that's a valid reason for betting. But "you may very well be able to get him to fold a worse hand right here" is not. DUCY?
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jaytoi
Old 02-07-2010, 08:52 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Turned out he did have AQ , so in that case checking back the turn got another buck in for me. Probably should open fold pockets more im thinking. What's the earliest position an iso raise would be viable from though, considering i had a fairly low pocket pair?
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jaytoi
Old 02-07-2010, 08:57 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Good point with A9 A8 too, though i still dont know if he'd raise 6x BB from SB with them.
Im ready this time.
 
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kdawgy80
Old 02-07-2010, 03:18 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark

We don't want villain to fold AK. We beat AK. If you mean "you may very well be able to get him to put more money in with a worse hand right here" then that's a valid reason for betting. But "you may very well be able to get him to fold a worse hand right here" is not. DUCY?
Part of my reason for raising flop/betting turn was that in this situation it could be a really quick and easy to way to find out if you're ahead or not (they shove?) and depending on the player he might play along w/ AK. Certainly not something that should be done everytime or most of the time for sure but an option depending on situation.

But yea, another part of the reason I said it was to get a worse hand to fold. Not what we want to do.
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Horace
Old 02-08-2010, 05:31 AM #10 (permalink)  
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I do agree a bet on the turn could be beneficial. Maybe a small bet (4,5 x BB?) just to test the waters. Either he calls, raises or folds. However, there is not much wrong with the play, just make sure this is not normal and that you mix it up a bit?
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kiwiMark
Old 02-08-2010, 05:46 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Discussion in IRC:

yaawn, m2m, m2m's coach, and a mysterious player all think limping behind here is good to try and get a multiway pot, re-evaluate if iso raised, in this case call the raise, fold the flop.
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surviva316
Old 02-08-2010, 05:50 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 pretty much any theoretical perspective you take on this hand (ISF theorem, range balancing, equity vs. continuing ranges, playing medium strength hands for showdown IP, etc) oughta dictate that this is not a good spot to bluff


and for those who can appreciate the lulz:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark
Discussion in IRC:

yaawn, m2m, m2m's coach, and a mysterious player all think limping behind here is good to try and get a multiway pot, re-evaluate if iso raised, in this case call the raise, fold the flop.
<m2m> my coach says limp here
<kiwiMark> Cool
<kiwiMark> Somebody post that?
<m2m> lol
<yaawn> I'm too lazy
<iopq> ok I'll do it
<iopq> o w8
<m2m> 'my coach says limp here' - m2m
<m2m> end thread
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Icanhastreebet
Old 02-08-2010, 05:52 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 oic you got here b4 me.

yeah it doesn't make sense to call pre(clear set mining) then to call flop since you are basically putting him on a super strong range pre (88+,AQ+)ish and are wayyy behind that range on the flop so fold ezgame.
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spoonitnow
Old 02-08-2010, 06:11 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 I'll just throw this out there: I limp pre-flop here and call the raise, but would fold if it was folded to me instead. Then again, I wouldn't be 80bb deep when the hand started either.
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Micro2Macro
Old 02-08-2010, 06:48 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I'll just throw this out there: I limp pre-flop here and call the raise, but would fold if it was folded to me instead. Then again, I wouldn't be 80bb deep when the hand started either.
*nods in agreement*
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Stacks
Old 02-08-2010, 07:43 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 (1) I'd reload to 100bb preflop
(2) Limping Behind and calling raise is fine.
(3) As stated, I'd open fold if UTG hadn't have limped
(4) Calling flop is pretty bad, as you have relatively little equity when behind [2 outs to a set], and when you are ahead you aren't ahead by a lot as most hands have 6+ outs against you.
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pccarballo
Old 02-13-2010, 12:40 PM #17 (permalink)  

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I like your play preflop..At this levels you have more implied odds to play for set value
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hhsale
Old 02-18-2010, 10:19 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I like it, good call
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imnotinsane
Old 02-18-2010, 09:10 PM #19 (permalink)  
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I don't understand this, whats the reason in calling raises or raise preflop with a hand like a pocket pair lower than 88?
I mean, a low pair needs to hit the set to win almost always (at least in the 2NL where most people don't fold their mid crap). What I usually do with those hands is limp in when I have mid-late position and if I don't hit the set I'm out out the hand.

(I'm just asking, I'm pretty noob, been playing poker for 1 month)

also I don't get that call in the river
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