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5 easy steps to Winning at low limit no limit

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Laeelin

08-07-2005, 07:01 PM Post subject: 5 easy steps to Winning at low limit no limit

#1 (permalink)

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5 steps to winning at low limit no limit holdem!

1) NEVER Bluff! ( even if they believe you, they still will not fold because they can still could get two more 3's and hit quads to win!)

2) You are not the police! ( Don't try to catch people in a bluff. You will save far more folding to real hands than you will win catching ocassional bluff )

3) An TPTK or an overpair is not the nuts. ( yes, pocket aces are great, but when someome reraises your flop bet be aware that they might have 2 pair or a set)

4) If you have it, bet it! ( they are willing to call bets when they shouldnt, so make them pay when you hit your hand. Note: Dont forget rule 2, just because they are paying far more than they should for that 2 outer doesnt mean they cant hit it!)

5) Dont enter the pot with second best hand! (It's better to fold AQ preflop 10 times than to have AQ on a A8T flop againstg AK one time. Learn the starting hands, learn what hands need to fold to reraises, and FOLD them.)

Thoughts?
Corrections?

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

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Miffed22001

08-07-2005, 07:06 PM

#2 (permalink)

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sub rule 1.1
When raising with KK in any position and called with ace on the flop do not go all in. He has that ace and will call you all the way down.

(oh yeah, and when you have the nuts go all in they will call u with shit)

spino1i

08-07-2005, 07:56 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Sounds like good rules to me. Nice post.

BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
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Galapogos

08-07-2005, 09:55 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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To Re-iterate rule #1: NEVER BLUFF

I found this to be the most valuable rule at these low limits. You can have a board set up with countless hand possibilities. And they will still call with mid-pair.

Of course I am still found guilty of bluffing sometimes but it's just so tempting! But yeah, good rule, don't.

a500lbgorilla

08-08-2005, 12:39 AM

#5 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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Continuation bets?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Laeelin

08-08-2005, 12:42 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Continuation bets?

Not sure at the low limits.... Sometimes I feel like they are just bleeding money, other times I feel like they are a money making move.

Really depends on the person your playing to much to make a rule about.

I'd love some discussion on this when talking about low limits

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

Miffed22001

08-08-2005, 12:46 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Quote:

Continuation bets?

Not sure at the low limits.... Sometimes I feel like they are just bleeding money, other times I feel like they are a money making move.

Really depends on the person your playing to much to make a rule about.

If you simply raise 5bbs all the time all positions like me

then when you continuation bet or check raise the dops dont have aclue what you have.
obviously i reraise more than 5bbs but you see what im saying

Laeelin

08-08-2005, 12:54 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

If you simply raise 5bbs all the time all positions like me
then when you continuation bet or check raise the dops dont have aclue what you have.
obviously i reraise more than 5bbs but you see what im saying

I always raise preflop the same ammount when I raise, thats not what bothers me.

It's the bet after the flop.

I know your suposted to make a "continuation bet" after a preflop raise, but it feels like i'm getting called or reraise about half the time when I make the continuation bet (might just be the frusturation speaking though, been a really bad day... KK hitting AA 3 times today, small FH hitting big FH twice, set hitting straight 2 times all in all, a very bad day)

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

Miffed22001

08-08-2005, 01:10 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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I feel for you guy.
Ive just turned one of those runs around.
When i raise and then overcards appear i bet the pot after the same peflop raise. They'll have to police me if they want to find out what i really have. Semi-bluffing? i dont know. The continuation bet must be strong and always there. Although i do check-raise too especially with overpairs thus ive worked on being difficult to read (possibly the greatest asset at low level play, i dont know about higher play yet!)
It works for me simply becasue when i come in pots i come in strong and hard. Yes i walk into monsters on occasion, but more often than not people dont want to draw or play simply because i dont make it cheap to play. This aggresison has been the key i lost in my play for a while. I felt out people and called and checked.
Soemtimes we also have to know when were beat as well.

TripsChaos

08-08-2005, 01:14 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 86

what exactly does the original post mean by "low limits>"

Irisheyes

08-08-2005, 01:28 AM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

what exactly does the original post mean by "low limits>"

$2 (.01/.02), $4 (.02/.04) $10 (.05/.10) stakes(limits) etc. Just because high stakes(limits) NL, lets say, $1000 (5/10) will play differently then low stakes(limits).

Laeelin is just specifying because these steps won't be so efficient at high or medium limits where the standard of play will be higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong Laeelin.

Laeelin

08-08-2005, 01:40 AM

#12 (permalink)

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exactly... at the medium/high limts things change completly.

as you move up and start playing better and better players they start actually paying attention to your play a lot more. This would be a loseing strategy against a good player because they would know exactly what you had every hand.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

lamaros

08-08-2005, 04:54 AM

#13 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 346

I don't necessarily agree with #5. These guys call down with anything, so you'll win with something. For all the times you'll get hit by a bad beat there will be more when they get nothing and you win.

Laeelin

08-08-2005, 05:03 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lamaros

Sure, but thats not easy.

Following these five rules would make a monkey a winning player.

Removeing number five makes reading the other player much harder.

Follow the 5 rules, build a bankroll, and only then start getting fancy.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

Rondavu

08-08-2005, 01:30 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 3,053

At lower limits it's very important to remember you should be shifting your aggressive action postflop. You need to be more passive without a made hand. You should be limping a little more preflop with unmade hands like KQ suited in mid position for example. Also, you should limp with a lot of connectors and small pairs. Call reasonable raises with your pocket pairs because you WILL take someone's stack with a set.

The point I'm getting to is this... Since you WILL get payed off on made hands, there's no reason to be aggressive without one preflop. You're just going to get called by 5 people, miss the flop, and lose whatever you raised preflop. Why not just limp in, wait until you have a good hand, and bet hard? When you're sitting with a bunch of loose passive players, it makes no sense to do anything else. They'll pay you. All your equity is on the other side of the made hand.

Don't gasp when I tell you this, but at a very loose full ring I will actually limp with AK unsuited if I'm not in late position with a lot of folded hands before me. Sounds wrong hugh? Well the action you will get postflop makes up for the value and isolation you desperately fail to achieve preflop. Trust me you're not gonna isolate enough to make it profitable, so don't even try.

People make the mistake of losing money on raises into inevitable family pots at a loose table. All you're doing is building the lottery for whoever flops hard. Stop doing it. Camp and strike. It's not real poker down here yet. You'll learn how to play real poker when your bankroll permits it.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Ro_Joe

08-08-2005, 08:15 PM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

.....You should be limping a little more preflop with unmade hands like KQ suited in mid position for example. Also, you should limp with a lot of connectors and small pairs. Call reasonable raises with your pocket pairs because you WILL take someone's stack with a set.
Don't gasp when I tell you this, but at a very loose full ring I will actually limp with AK unsuited if I'm not in late position with a lot of folded hands before me.

I don't know if you consider 50NL low limits, but this is the strategy I am using. I thought when I moved up from 25NL that there would be less fish and calling stations. Boy was I wrong. I limp in a lot more than I used to. With AK is used to bet 3 to 4xBB. Now I'll limp in with it a lot more. It has been much more profitable than betting it preflop and then missing the board.

I know this goes against the "normal" way to play, but I even limped high pocket pairs (QQ, JJ) in early to mid position. I understand your giving them a chance to draw to their garbage, but this play has also been more profitable for me.

The action I have seen on 50NL is usually 4 or 5 people in the pot with most of them on drawing hands. And the bulk of them are chasing to the river. A lot of them are playing things like K3s, Q5s, etc. from any position. If they even get a sniff of their suit there going to stay in the hand. If you see 3 of the same suit on the board, you can almost guarantee that someone has a flush.

So limping more preflop and being more agressive postflop has been a better play for me lately.

08-08-2005, 09:49 PM

#17 (permalink)

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I'd rather beat AJ on an ace high flop ten times with my AQ and then lose once to AK than not play AQ at all...

Laeelin

08-08-2005, 10:26 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I'd rather beat AJ on an ace high flop ten times with my AQ and then lose once to AK than not play AQ at all...

Who said don't play AQ?

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 12:40 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I'd rather beat AJ on an ace high flop ten times with my AQ and then lose once to AK than not play AQ at all...

Who said don't play AQ?

You did... it's second best to AK, AA, KK, QQ

you said don't enter the pot with second best hand
well, duh, but I don't know what hand they have

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 01:09 AM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I'd rather beat AJ on an ace high flop ten times with my AQ and then lose once to AK than not play AQ at all...

Who said don't play AQ?

You did... it's second best to AK, AA, KK, QQ

you said don't enter the pot with second best hand
well, duh, but I don't know what hand they have

did you read the point before you replied to it?

let me give the full quote..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

5) Dont enter the pot with second best hand! (It's better to fold AQ preflop 10 times than to have AQ on a A8T flop againstg AK one time. Learn the starting hands, learn what hands need to fold to reraises, and FOLD them.)

I didnt say dont play AQ, I said know when to fold it.

AQ is often the best hand, but if your reraised, then chances are your in a dominated posistion.

AA
AK
KK
QQ

sure, they might have AJ or TT or even 72, but it's not worth the chance....

in no limit I'd rather have JTs after a reraise than AQ

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 01:18 AM

#21 (permalink)

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No, the only thing you know is that they have a pair or an ace...

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 01:26 AM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, the only thing you know is that they have a pair or an ace...

so, when talking to a beginner in a situation like this:

playing in .15/.25

They have AQ

they raise $1.00

they get rereaised $3.00

and your advice is to call?

ps: i'm not trying to be accuseing here, and i'm sorry if it comes off that way, I just dont see this as a money making move.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 01:51 AM

#23 (permalink)

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No, I'm talking about:

2c/4c

I raise 12c
He raises 12c more cause he's a stupid fish

yeah I call

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 02:05 AM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, I'm talking about:

2c/4c

I raise 12c
He raises 12c more cause he's a stupid fish

yeah I call

anyone else have thoughts on this?

I still dont agree with calling... In my experence fish call with anything, but are at least a little picky about what they reraise with.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 02:24 AM

#25 (permalink)

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You're right, in that spot I raise.
You know he's thinking "HOT DAMM TWO FACE CARDS!"

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 02:59 AM

#26 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

You're right, in that spot I raise.
You know he's thinking "HOT DAMM TWO FACE CARDS!"

When you reraise, you know he is going to go all in... even if it's any 2 face cards or a pair that leaves:

AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KK, KQ, KJ, QQ, QJ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, or 22

of thoes...
I beat 4 (AJ, KQ,QJ, KJ)
14 beat me (AA,KK,QQ,AK,JJ,TT,99,88,77,66,55,44,33,22)
and 1 I tie (AQ).

I still think this is a loseing play.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 03:13 AM

#27 (permalink)

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no he probably calls

and remember the 13 hands that are pairs come rarer

and if you have AQs then you beat the pairs lower than ten

plus we're probably talking about different limits and kinds of tables anyway
the limits I played people go all in with JTs
OH MAH GAWSH ITZ SOOTED

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 03:22 AM

#28 (permalink)

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Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I dont agree, but it's not like my word is law =)

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

08-09-2005, 03:31 AM

#29 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I dont agree, but it's not like my word is law =)

Depends on how deep the stacks are. If they are 25BB then it's AI with AQ

underminedsk

08-09-2005, 03:36 AM

#30 (permalink)

Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I totally agree with you. When I was playing NL25 ring, I would limp AQ from / mid position, and raise it from late position. I would NOT even call sizable raises (more than 8xbb or so) with it preflop, and definately not call if someone raises my raise without a good reason to do so. This means that in the situation you outlined above, I might be pushing all my chips into the middle preflop with AQ (against ONE reraiser who I'm pretty sure has Ax, KQ, etc) but more likely I'm just folding and waiting for a better spot to put my money in.

online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max

08-09-2005, 03:43 AM

#31 (permalink)

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You forget that the pot odds are good enough for a coin flip since I already raised once.
(with 25BB stacks)

Laeelin

08-09-2005, 03:51 AM

#32 (permalink)

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where are you playing with just 25bb stacks?

that totally changes everything...

I normally play with 100bb stacks...

Thats probally why we look at this so diffrently.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

CrunchyNuts

08-09-2005, 04:31 AM

#33 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

and if you have AQs then you beat the pairs lower than ten

AQs is only favored to win vs a pocket pair if it's 2's.

Just a random fact 'cause I like facts.

(handy calculator - http://twodimes.net/poker/)

Up my bankroll - buy Saints Row.

08-09-2005, 04:45 AM

#34 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

and if you have AQs then you beat the pairs lower than ten

AQs is only favored to win vs a pocket pair if it's 2's.

Just a random fact 'cause I like facts.

(handy calculator - http://twodimes.net/poker/)

lol you're right
it's the counterfeitting thing

08-09-2005, 04:48 AM

#35 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

where are you playing with just 25bb stacks?

that totally changes everything...

I normally play with 100bb stacks...

Thats probally why we look at this so diffrently.

That's because at pokerchamps the max buyin in 50BB
but most people buy in with the freeroll winnings of 25BB so in fact the game has like half the people with around 25BB

I forgot what the higher games are

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