4NL - Pocket Tens in middle position

**maverick007** · 07-10-2012 12:08 PM

Villain is 21/3 over 250 hands

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

UTG+1 ($1.41)
Hero (MP1) ($3.92)
MP2 ($1.02)
MP3 ($1.55)
CO ($5.76)
Button ($4.28)
SB ($1.80)
BB ($4)
UTG ($2.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 10

, 10

UTG calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.16, 3 folds, Button calls $0.16, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.54) Q

, 9

, 3

(3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.27, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.27

Turn: ($1.08) 8

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.08) 10

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.72, Hero calls $0.72

Total pot: $2.52 | Rake: $0.16

Results below:

Spoiler:

UTG had 8

, J

(straight, Queen high).
Hero didn't show 10

, 10

(nothing).
Outcome: UTG won $2.36

**Imthenewfish** · 07-10-2012 08:04 PM

Don't post results, bet more on flop, fold river

**bjsaust** · 07-11-2012 01:05 AM

Quick comment, you have 250 hands on him, you should be able to do better here than give pre-flop stats to work with.

**Shotglass** · 07-11-2012 04:25 AM

I'd fire a 2nd barrel ott
fold river

**The Bean Counter** · 07-12-2012 08:21 PM

Bet turn, fold river.

**bikes** · 07-12-2012 10:28 PM

dont see why everyone is so excited to bet the turn

**Vinland** · 07-12-2012 11:11 PM

I bet flop more (.35-.40)
Turn isnt an auto bet but I would prob bet 1/2 pot bet b/c he could back into some draws here. His 21/3 stats tell me he can have quite the variety of hands.

Dont call river. Any diamond and any J beats you. He's not betting TP on the river

**rpm** · 07-13-2012 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Vinland

Dont call river. Any two diamonds and any J beats you. He's not betting TP on the river

fyp

**Vinland** · 07-13-2012 03:47 AM

yes.....yes you did

**Shotglass** · 07-13-2012 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by bikes

dont see why everyone is so excited to bet the turn

hmm, well...could it be this ---->

Originally Posted by Vinland

Turn isnt an auto bet but I would prob bet 1/2 pot bet b/c he could back into some draws here. His 21/3 stats tell me he can have quite the variety of hands.

**bikes** · 07-13-2012 04:19 AM

think barreling is a big mistake. esp if you have no fucking clue to do on 90% of rivers

**surviva316** · 07-18-2012 04:39 PM

Step 1: Know how he responds to isolations. The dude obviously limps a lot, and you have position on him, so you should have a plan on how you're going to play your entire isolation range. This is (or at least should be, but people suck at teaching beginners) Poker 101. I'm not sure if you should bet the flop and how much you should bet it because I don't know how often he limp/folds vs how often he limp/calls vs how often he limp/3b's (so, I don't know what his range is going into the flop), and I don't know how often he folds to cbets (so, I don't know what his continuing range is, much less HOW he continues with it), so basically you're just basing your plays on "standard" poker, which is mindless poker that A) doesn't optimize and B) isn't going to get you far.

R.E.M., son! The first step of that is to take the requisite steps to have some kind of f..king clue what villain has.

PS: Sorry, if my tone's coming off as berating. I swear I'm not meaning to berate; I'm just making a very useful point in the best way I know how (ie, berating :P ).

**surviva316** · 07-18-2012 04:42 PM

I'm going to say this again because I think it very very very much bears worth repeating in the BC: all over poker theory basically starts with thinking about how you play your isolation range. In this way, I'm being VERY literal when I say that planning your isolation range is Poker101.

People's biggest weakness at these stakes (and as high as 500nl if you play live) is that they limp too much, so you basically win your money by exploiting this very exploitable habit.

**MadMojoMonkey** · 07-18-2012 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

R.E.M., son!

... huh?
What's the Frequency, Kenneth? (of villain's limp-calls)
Everybody Hurts (when their set gets busted)
Losing My Religion ('cause the poker gods laugh at me)

Seriously, though... what do you mean here?

**surviva316** · 07-18-2012 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

... huh?
What's the Frequency, Kenneth? (of villain's limp-calls)
Everybody Hurts (when their set gets busted)
Losing My Religion ('cause the poker gods laugh at me)

Seriously, though... what do you mean here?

Range
Equity
Maximize

It's a Sklansky thing. Regardless of whether or not you think that all decisions boil down to REM, they certainly all start with Range.

**DoubleJ** · 07-18-2012 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

It's a Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta and Ed Miller thing.

fyp

**surviva316** · 07-18-2012 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

It's a thing I read....in a book.

I'll be F'ing my own P's around here, thank you very much.

**DoubleJ** · 07-18-2012 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

I'll be F'ing my own P's around here, thank you very much.

right-o

sorry about that

07-10-2012 12:08 PM #1
maverick007 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2011 Posts 110 Location Mumbai/Melbourne	4NL - Pocket Tens in middle position Villain is 21/3 over 250 hands Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com saw flop \| saw showdown UTG+1 ($1.41) Hero (MP1) ($3.92) MP2 ($1.02) MP3 ($1.55) CO ($5.76) Button ($4.28) SB ($1.80) BB ($4) UTG ($2.90) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 10, 10 UTG calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.16, 3 folds, Button calls $0.16, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.12 Flop: ($0.54) Q, 9, 3 (3 players) UTG checks, Hero bets $0.27, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.27 Turn: ($1.08) 8 (2 players) UTG checks, Hero checks River: ($1.08) 10 (2 players) UTG bets $0.72, Hero calls $0.72 Total pot: $2.52 \| Rake: $0.16 Results below: Spoiler: UTG had 8, J (straight, Queen high). Hero didn't show 10, 10 (nothing). Outcome: UTG won $2.36

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07-10-2012 08:04 PM #2
Imthenewfish View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2010 Posts 1,107	Don't post results, bet more on flop, fold river

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07-11-2012 01:05 AM #3
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	Quick comment, you have 250 hands on him, you should be able to do better here than give pre-flop stats to work with.
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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07-11-2012 04:25 AM #4
Shotglass View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2010 Posts 1,745 Location feelin' allright	I'd fire a 2nd barrel ott fold river
	Originally Posted by givememyleg i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
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07-12-2012 08:21 PM #5
The Bean Counter View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2011 Posts 329	Bet turn, fold river.

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4NL - Pocket Tens in middle position

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4NL - Pocket Tens in middle position

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07-12-2012 10:28 PM #6
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,219 Location house	dont see why everyone is so excited to bet the turn

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07-12-2012 11:11 PM #7
Vinland View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2008 Posts 881 Location Between a couple of points.	I bet flop more (.35-.40) Turn isnt an auto bet but I would prob bet 1/2 pot bet b/c he could back into some draws here. His 21/3 stats tell me he can have quite the variety of hands. Dont call river. Any diamond and any J beats you. He's not betting TP on the river
	I confess in quicksand
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07-13-2012 12:03 AM #8
rpm View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2009 Posts 2,839 Location maaaaaaaaaaate	Originally Posted by Vinland Dont call river. Any two diamonds and any J beats you. He's not betting TP on the river fyp

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07-13-2012 03:47 AM #9
Vinland View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2008 Posts 881 Location Between a couple of points.	yes.....yes you did
	I confess in quicksand
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07-13-2012 03:55 AM #10
Shotglass View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2010 Posts 1,745 Location feelin' allright	Originally Posted by bikes dont see why everyone is so excited to bet the turn hmm, well...could it be this ----> Originally Posted by Vinland Turn isnt an auto bet but I would prob bet 1/2 pot bet b/c he could back into some draws here. His 21/3 stats tell me he can have quite the variety of hands.
	Originally Posted by givememyleg i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
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07-13-2012 04:19 AM #11
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,219 Location house	think barreling is a big mistake. esp if you have no fucking clue to do on 90% of rivers

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07-18-2012 04:39 PM #12
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,797 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Step 1: Know how he responds to isolations. The dude obviously limps a lot, and you have position on him, so you should have a plan on how you're going to play your entire isolation range. This is (or at least should be, but people suck at teaching beginners) Poker 101. I'm not sure if you should bet the flop and how much you should bet it because I don't know how often he limp/folds vs how often he limp/calls vs how often he limp/3b's (so, I don't know what his range is going into the flop), and I don't know how often he folds to cbets (so, I don't know what his continuing range is, much less HOW he continues with it), so basically you're just basing your plays on "standard" poker, which is mindless poker that A) doesn't optimize and B) isn't going to get you far. R.E.M., son! The first step of that is to take the requisite steps to have some kind of f..king clue what villain has. PS: Sorry, if my tone's coming off as berating. I swear I'm not meaning to berate; I'm just making a very useful point in the best way I know how (ie, berating :P ).
	Last edited by surviva316; 07-18-2012 at 04:43 PM. Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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07-18-2012 04:42 PM #13
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,797 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	I'm going to say this again because I think it very very very much bears worth repeating in the BC: all over poker theory basically starts with thinking about how you play your isolation range. In this way, I'm being VERY literal when I say that planning your isolation range is Poker101. People's biggest weakness at these stakes (and as high as 500nl if you play live) is that they limp too much, so you basically win your money by exploiting this very exploitable habit.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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07-18-2012 05:32 PM #14
MadMojoMonkey View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 1,228 Location St Louis, MO	Originally Posted by surviva316 R.E.M., son! ... huh? What's the Frequency, Kenneth? (of villain's limp-calls) Everybody Hurts (when their set gets busted) Losing My Religion ('cause the poker gods laugh at me) Seriously, though... what do you mean here?

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07-18-2012 06:12 PM #15
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,797 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey ... huh? What's the Frequency, Kenneth? (of villain's limp-calls) Everybody Hurts (when their set gets busted) Losing My Religion ('cause the poker gods laugh at me) Seriously, though... what do you mean here? Range Equity Maximize It's a Sklansky thing. Regardless of whether or not you think that all decisions boil down to REM, they certainly all start with Range.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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07-18-2012 06:43 PM #16
DoubleJ View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2011 Posts 858 Location Still on that feckin' island!	Originally Posted by surviva316 It's a Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta and Ed Miller thing. fyp
	Last edited by DoubleJ; 07-18-2012 at 07:06 PM. BC Moran 204 A St, Langley, V1M1G9 (604) 888-52648870
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07-18-2012 06:47 PM #17
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,797 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Originally Posted by surviva316 It's a thing I read....in a book. I'll be F'ing my own P's around here, thank you very much.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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07-18-2012 07:07 PM #18
DoubleJ View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2011 Posts 858 Location Still on that feckin' island!	Originally Posted by surviva316 I'll be F'ing my own P's around here, thank you very much. right-o sorry about that
	BC Moran 204 A St, Langley, V1M1G9 (604) 888-52648870
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