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4-of-a-kind Profit Max Help

  
 
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xpaand
Old 03-03-2009, 06:42 PM     Post subject: 4-of-a-kind Profit Max Help #1 (permalink)  
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 I've never encountered four-of-a-kind on online before and for some reason I lost all sensibility and decided to slowplay it very poorly. I wanted to know the thought process that I should be going through to play this hand properly. This was the fourth hand btw, and so I had no reads on anyone yet. Thanks in advance.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

UTG ($4.45)
Villain (UTG+1) ($22.72)
MP1 ($5)
MP2 ($13.31)
MP3 ($5.12)
CO ($5)
Hero (Button) ($9.97)
SB ($2.66)
BB ($5.74)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, A
1 fold, Villain calls $0.05, MP1 checks, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.25, 2 folds, Villain calls $0.20, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.62) J, J, J (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $0.20, Villain raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.55

Turn: ($2.12) A (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold

Total pot: $2.12 | Rake: $0.14

Results:
Hero didn't show J, A (nothing).
Outcome: Hero won $1.98
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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Carroters
Old 03-03-2009, 06:51 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 My advice for quads at the micros: If it's likely villain has a something he'll be willing to play a decent sized pot with, just play your hand fast since they NEVER EVER put you on quads with this line. When he raises this flop I just 3 bet the cos he'll stack of with so many pps.

Obviously slowplaying is fine when villain's range is weaker because you often have the board destroyed with quads.

As played, your turn play is so horrible imo, no idea what you're trying to achieve.

Just remeber when going for value, villains at these stakes often think like this:

"OMFG he's bet loads he must be weak and a bluffer cos no1 wuld eva do that with da nuts!"

 
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xpaand
Old 03-03-2009, 07:09 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Yeah that's so true.

Well on the turn I was thinking "Hmm. This guy thinks I have something strong so I'll make it seem like I'm just trying to weakly bluff him out." I don't even know. Like I said, I know I played the hand SO poorly.

I think what happened was that I figured out he didn't have an A since he checked, and that if I bet real high, I would scare him out of the pot. And so I tried to bet small just to squeeze some money out of him cause at this point I figured he knew I had him beat.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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tuuk2
Old 03-03-2009, 07:10 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think I check behind there and see what he does on the river. The bet looks like a c-bet with perhaps a pocket pair. It appears the A was a scare card for Villain so check behind to see if he'll bluff on the river.

There is no possible hand out there that can beat you. Your hope is that the Villain somehow catches up on the river or bluffs at the pot. There's a good chance he might if he thinks your check on the turn meant you had nothing. At the very least, you've got one more street in which to extract value.

The problem with such a small bet on the turn is that it looks like you have a huge hand. If anyone is thinking at all (and they may not be), they would see you call a .75 bet on the flop and then raise only .25 on the turn. To me, that screams "call me because I have you beat and I want to get more of your money".
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xpaand
Old 03-03-2009, 07:10 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 This is probably my greatest leak... I was scared that he would get out of the pot and so I didn't bet too aggressive, hence not 3betting on the flop.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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St8ofN8
Old 03-03-2009, 07:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I would have 3bet the flop, checked the turn hoping he hit something on the river.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:42 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm willing to bet that playing quads optimally will not affect your winrate.
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ArcadianRock
Old 03-03-2009, 09:48 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Fast Fast Fast Fast Fast...Fast Fast

What happened if he has a pair in his hand or even just an A, he's got to be thinking he's ahead here. I never put someone on quads, it happens so rarely that doing so is -EV. It's like the players who are always thinking, but what if he hit 2-pair, it's more common but if you think that way every time you're going to throw lots of money away when you have TPTK.

I mean, people shove QJo preflop at this level. Don't waste the quads by building a small pot to win, just not worth it. If he has a S$%$ hand oh well, take it down.
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xpaand
Old 03-03-2009, 10:08 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
I'm willing to bet that playing quads optimally will not affect your winrate.
Hey that's really true. But I guess I wanted to learn what I should do when there was an obvious possibility of a huge nut hand that I hit right on the flop.

Thanks for the feedback guys. It really did help a lot.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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