Originally Posted by spoonitnow

There are more than 3 reasons but none of them are listed in this thread yet, only applications of some of the reasons. Break it down to a more basic level: what do your #1 and #2 REALLY do?

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Gonna have to spend time thinking about this.. because I'm drawing a blank off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by jyms

If a bet is made and a worse hand folds, did it make a sound?

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Technically, you always want the worse hands to call, and you always want the hands that are better to fold, but that's more about pot size manipulation isn't it?

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

ok.

1) To get better hands to fold
2) to get worse hands to call.
3) (bloating the pot doesn't do either, but I still think this is correct) Bloating the pot when you have equity

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

No, this is exactly the point. If a bet [or raise] doesn't do one of those two things (get a worse hand to call or a better hand to fold) then it's rather likely that the bet [or raise] shouldn't be made.

Originally Posted by iopq

That's wrong.

Say I have a worse hand, but I have a flush draw. You shove your TPTK in because the pot is large enough to do that, and I fold. Does that mean you should let me draw for free?

So the third reason is to protect our hand. The fourth reason is for information.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I don't bet, I like to fc/fc all the time

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

No, "protecting your hand" is just a subcase of getting worse hands to call -- just because the hand is classified as a "draw" doesn't change the simple fact that it has less equity than the aggressor like all other value-betting cases.

A third reason to bet or raise is information, but my understanding is that the number of cases you will run into to utilize this effectively before mid-stakes is very low.

A fourth reason is manipulation. A free card play is a good basic example here.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I don't bet, I like to c/c all the time

Originally Posted by iopq

No, I'm OK with a draw folding because I gain equity when a draw folds correctly, or when a draw calls incorrectly. Obviously, I'd prefer him to call, but I'd take a fold over giving him a free card.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Flat check/flat call imo

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

check dark/smooth call

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Cold check/call dark

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Split from the TT betting for information stuff that Jolub posted.

Ok. I got to thinking about the 3 reasons we bet, and I just want to make sure I have it, because to be honest.. I'm not feeling it.

1. Because we have the best hand, and want to get money into the pot with the best hand.
2. Because we think we have the opportunity to win the pot right now.
3. Because we have a very large draw, and we want to bloat the pot should our draw come in.

amirite?

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

1. Yes, you're correct, if we feel we have the best hand it is typically correct to bet. However, there are spots where it is not. Can you think of any of these?

2. I would guess this pertains to our opponents drawing against us and their immediate/implied odds. If this is the case, then yes, this is a good reason to bet. What would be the key factor in this bet?

3. I feel like this statement could be coming from someone who read SSLHE like I did when I first started and was playing loose/passive FR LHE games. Whenever you bet, you're obviously building a bigger pot, so what are some better reasons to bet/raise our draws?

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Close on some, I'd like Ragnar to respond before I give my complete thoughts.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

remember that HSP hand where Sammy raises PF, Gold rr's, sammy calls and bets the flop dark and gold raises the flop dark. One of the funniest hands ever and jamie had AA and sammy like QQ and that was like hte only way Gold wasn't getting paid.