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FriskyPirate

01-11-2009, 04:40 AM Post subject: 3 noobie micro questions

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Palm Springs

Posts: 92

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Two Pair
When I look at my final hands in PT3, some of my biggest loses are two-pair. Is it common for newer players to be spewing with two pair? I am -$50 with two pair over 30,000 hands. Should this figure eventually turn positive as I improve and learn to toss two pair away? Two pair seems like such a strong hand! I hate poker.

lol

Shove
I watch tutorial videos and I am always amazed and confused when the author says "ok I was ready to stack-off". What are some flop and turn stack-off situations? Are they bluffs or are they situations like two overs and a flush draw? or a pair and nut flush draw? It would help to know some example situations when stacking off on the flop is +EV.

Flopping a non nut-flush
Let's say you are in the BB with something like Q9s and two people call and the flop gives come out with three suited cards giving you the flush. How do you proceed? In the past I have gone all-in (trying to prevent people from drawing out), only to get crushed by the nut flush. Do you bet each street normally and wait to feel if there is resistance?

thanks for your time.

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kb coolman

01-11-2009, 05:17 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

Two Pair - Go back and take a look at the board texture and see what it looks like. Where are you stacking off?

Shove - This confuses me, too. I've seen some weird stuff where they said it was +EV.

Flopping non-nut flush - You want to give incorrect odds to call for chasing a 4-flush, but getting it AI here is ALWAYS a good choice. Letting them draw it out just gives a chance for a 4 flush.

swiggidy

01-11-2009, 05:18 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Are some of these two pair hands one pair on a paired flop? That would make a huge difference.

Two overs and NFD, or TPTK+NFD I'm generally willing to stack off. Do you have pokerstove so you can figure out why? I'm only folding these hands vs a nit.

Ugh. Think about this. It's a limped pot, so starting off there are 4-5bb tops in the pot. So you're going to standard stack off on a monotone flop with 99bb behind? What kind of hands would you expect villain to show up with?

All of your questions are really broad. There will likely be people posting very long responses. But any analysis comes down to ranges. What type of hands are your 2 pair up against, it could be a 26789 river, or a 29K flop. Those are totally different. DUCY?

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FriskyPirate

01-11-2009, 06:15 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Palm Springs

Posts: 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Are some of these two pair hands one pair on a paired flop? That would make a huge difference.

I see what you are saying. Trying to find some examples. It looks like many of my bad two pair hands were pushing one pair on the flop when I was behind and upset about having a great hand like KK or AA only to get out flopped.

Is this a bad spot for two pair? Villian is a 9/4.

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG lucasong ($10.95)
UTG+1 monstr--kok ($10.70)
CO Duffy_king ($7.80)
BTN Hero ($10.75)
SB Wakegod ($5.25)
BB MaiiirK ($11.35)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is BTN

lucasong calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, MaiiirK calls $0.30, lucasong calls $0.30

Flop:

($1.25, 3 players)
MaiiirK checks, lucasong checks, Hero bets $1.15, MaiiirK folds, lucasong calls $1.15

Turn:

($3.55, 2 players)
lucasong checks, Hero bets $1.70, lucasong raises to $4.20, Hero calls $2.50

River:

($11.95, 2 players)
lucasong goes all-in $5.20, $5.00 to Hero ($5.00)?

bigspenda73

01-11-2009, 06:57 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

yea my guess was 2pr is a loser when it's on a paired board and HEM doesn't understand the difference.

Your other questions are too vague but if you're still over-bet shoving like 90bbs into 10bb pots on the flop like a HH you posted a few weeks ago that's bad for reasons you should be able to figure out yourself.

bigslikk

01-13-2009, 05:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

2 pair being a long-term loser:

This is not good... 2 pair should be netting profit in the long term. You might be overplaying them (betting too hard with them, getting only made hands to call you).

Stacking off: You should really never make a decison in advance- better to look at where're you at currently. However in some siutations the pot is so large / the player's hand so good that even if the player knows there's a non-trivial chance he could be beat it still makes good sense to get it all in.

01-13-2009, 06:49 PM

#7 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

1. two pair is paired boards
so if the board is KKQ74 and you hold 42o you have two pair
I wouldn't expect that hand to be a winner either
-

2. you stack off based on your opponent's range
what does HE stack off with? can you beat that or make him fold by shoving?
for example, if you hold AK on a A73r board you can stack off if your SPR is 5 and AQ is in your opponent's range since he's not folding (if he wanted to fold A high boards he wouldn't be in the pot with AQ to begin with)
but if the SPR is 20, you shouldn't stack off because AQ is not in your opponent's stack-off range unless he's a total fish

say you raise and the board is Axxr and you hold AK
if you bet and get c/r you shouldn't 3b shove unless your opponent is a maniac
but say you 3b pf and get the same board, you should play for stacks against most people because if they called a 3b with AQ they're going to play for stacks (especially since it's like 2-3 bets post flop)
-
3. Just bet normally like you have top pair or something
you shouldn't slowplay because a fourth flush card kills the action hardcore and could lose you the pot
second reason not to slowplay is that the ace can stick around to peel two streets so you can get value (when you have a nut flush less hands will peel since second nut flush is not comfortable peeling)

nice_aiau

01-13-2009, 10:18 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand

Posts: 260

I'm pretty sure you can filter HEM to two pair, without pair on the board. But I'll have to check when I get home.

I'm always comitting on the flop with a Q high flush. 3-way limped people are willing to stack off with a much bigger range than k,a - high
And, like ipoq said I'll be betting PSB or close to PSB for both protection and value.

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