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3 bluffs. what do you think?

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pokerroomace

11-01-2006, 09:57 PM Post subject: 3 bluffs. what do you think?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

posting 3 bluffs i made at $50nl. i've been playing very aggressively recently and don't usually make plays like i have below, so it was a great feeling when these hands have come off. i've been playing aggressively for a few days now and i've been getting better and better at it
i'm not posting this to brag. they're just some small hands i played and i'd like to see what you think.
if you think i am showing off that's fine by me too.

this 1st one is sick:
Wicked bluff by me

$50 NL Texas Hold’em

Table (Real Money)

Seat 1 is the button

Total number of players : 6

Seat 1: LegendsNeverDie ( $56.05 )

Seat 6: Hero ( $121 )

Seat 3: caz2512 ( $18.39 )

Seat 2: tiboer ( $48.25 )

Seat 4: Peace_Death ( $47.26 )

Seat 5: TiGeRsHaRk84 ( $10.40 )

tiboer posts small blind [$0.25].

caz2512 posts big blind [$0.50].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to Hero [ 6d 2d ]

Peace_Death folds.

TiGeRsHaRk84 folds.

Hero calls [$0.50].

LegendsNeverDie calls [$0.50].

tiboer calls [$0.25].

caz2512 raises [$0.50].

Hero calls [$0.50].

LegendsNeverDie calls [$0.50].

tiboer calls [$0.50].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Ad, Ac ]

tiboer checks.

caz2512 bets [$1.57].

Hero raises [$3.14].

LegendsNeverDie folds.

tiboer calls [$3.14].

caz2512 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]

tiboer checks.

Hero checks.

** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]

tiboer checks.

Hero bets [$3].

tiboer folds.

Hero does not show cards.

Hero wins $14.30

A wicked hand. I reraised on the flop because I had a read on my opponent and I felt that he was weak. Also, I had been playing very aggressively.

On the river, I made a small bet because I had good odds to win the pot. It only had to work 1 in 5 times to work. Also, the small bet made it look as if I wanted a call. My opponent said he had a flush draw, which I believe. Also, my river opponent had only recently joined the table and did not know that I was playing really loose and aggressive.

***** Hand History for Game 5406674128 *****
iceball12 has left the table.
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Tue Oct 31 12:36:25 EST 2006
Table Table 126480 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: wattsson ( $51.55)
Seat 2: Kloe24 ( $16.05)
Seat 3: cwrik05 ( $35.70)
Seat 4: MikeGSXR ( $37.47)
Seat 6: Hero ( $67.65)
wattsson posts small blind (0.25)
Kloe24 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 4s, Ah ]
cwrik05 raises (1) to 1
MikeGSXR calls (1)
Hero calls (1)
wattsson folds.
Kloe24 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3s, 5c, 7d ]
Kloe24 checks.
cwrik05 checks.
MikeGSXR checks.
Hero bets (2.50)
Kloe24 calls (2.50)
cwrik05 folds.
MikeGSXR calls (2.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qs ]
Kloe24 checks.
MikeGSXR checks.
Hero checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
Kloe24 checks.
MikeGSXR checks.
Hero bets (3)
Kloe24 folds.
MikeGSXR folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $14.20 | Rake: $0.55
Board: [ 3s 5c 7d Qs Ts ]

wattsson balance $51.30, lost $0.25 (folded)
Kloe24 balance $12.55, lost $3.50 (folded)
cwrik05 balance $34.70, lost $1 (folded)
MikeGSXR balance $33.97, lost $3.50 (folded)
potti123 balance $50, sits out
Hero balance $75.35, bet $6.50, collected $14.20, net +$7.70

***** Hand History for Game 5407314931 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Tue Oct 31 17:46:21 EST 2006
Table Table 126882 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: TheMighty111 ( $35)
Seat 2: Hero ( $35.52)
Seat 3: raspoutine2 ( $59.15)
Seat 4: canadiancard ( $17.36)
Seat 5: Whizzmin ( $160.41)
Seat 6: Ladha ( $113.43)
Ladha posts small blind (0.25)
TheMighty111 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 5c, Ac ]
Hero raises (1) to 1
raspoutine2 calls (1)
canadiancard calls (1)
Ladha: seems like you're the hot seat now
Whizzmin calls (1)
Ladha calls (0.75)
TheMighty111 raises (2) to 2.50
Hero calls (1.50)
raspoutine2 folds.
canadiancard calls (1.50)
Hero: nice pot we got going here
Whizzmin: i always take this seat
Whizzmin: only this one
Whizzmin calls (1.50)
Ladha calls (1.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, Kd, Th ]
Ladha checks.
Hero: dammmmmmmmmmm
TheMighty111 checks.
Hero bets (3)
canadiancard folds.
Whizzmin calls (3)
Ladha folds.
TheMighty111 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kh ]
Hero bets (6)
Whizzmin folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $24.55 | Rake: $0.95
Board: [ 4c Kd Th Kh ]

TheMighty111 balance $32.50, lost $2.50 (folded)
Hero balance $48.57, bet $11.50, collected $24.55, net +$13.05
raspoutine2 balance $58.15, lost $1 (folded)
canadiancard balance $14.86, lost $2.50 (folded)
Whizzmin balance $154.91, lost $5.50 (folded)
Ladha balance $110.93, lost $2.50 (folded)

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

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dpe8598

11-01-2006, 10:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

I think that all of these hands were poorly played for a number of reasons. This is good for you to practice being aggressive and to learn to take stabs when sensing weakness, but I think that almost all of these decisions are -EV.

dpe8598

11-01-2006, 10:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

On a more positive note, it is great that you are learning how to bluff the river and consider pot odds. This is a very good skill to master.

bearcats05

11-01-2006, 10:29 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Posts: 336

lol those are some wicked hands

salsa4ever

11-02-2006, 12:49 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne

Posts: 1,073

well, it's a good start.

eventually, you'll hit a stretch where you run into hands and lose. But that's OK, 'cos everyone has to learn.

It's like dancing. You have to learn how to do things (like keep a good posture) a bit too much (you're now too stiff) before you can refine it and hit a good balance (good fluid body positioning).

So you're on the right track, but IMO I don't like any of the hands. Hand 2 IMO is the best because you have outs on the flop. Problem with the river is you're betting $3 into a $15 pot. I'm suspecting that if there was a hand that could beat your ace high it would have called. So although it "feels good" to make them fold with next to nothing, you didn't gain much 'cos your opponents had nothing.

And please use that converter if posting multiple hands!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?

Thee One

11-02-2006, 06:58 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 185

I think you're spewing honestly. No reason to even still be in these hands by the river except #2 with the FD. And the min-raise in #1 is crazy unless you actually have that A and are fishing for a weaker hand to push back at you. You should have made it about $5 on the flop in hand #1...any 7 or pp higher than 7 is calling that weak raise in that hand and they all have you beat.

Do not bluff. I repeat...do not bluff. Save yourself some cash. Save bluffing for tourneys when stack size, position, and ITM conspire together to make it +EV.

martindcx1e

11-02-2006, 07:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

calling down bluffs is more important than bluffing imo. bluff in small pots in spots where it's very obvious nobody has anything.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

Thee One

11-02-2006, 08:05 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

bluff in small pots in spots where it's very obvious nobody has anything.

QFT

bode

11-02-2006, 08:25 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

these hands are played terribly. "bluffing" $3 into $14-$15 pots is generally not a good play.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Rondavu

11-02-2006, 08:33 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

I don't mind hand 3 actually. Hero takes a nice line to the equity, with an easy choice if villain remains.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

dpe8598

11-02-2006, 08:35 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I don't mind hand 3 actually. Hero takes a nice line to the equity, with an easy choice if villain remains.

The flop and turn on hand 3 arent bad, but the min raise and subsequent limp w/ A5 suited are awful.

bode

11-02-2006, 09:39 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpe8598

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I don't mind hand 3 actually. Hero takes a nice line to the equity, with an easy choice if villain remains.

The flop and turn on hand 3 arent bad, but the min raise and subsequent limp w/ A5 suited are awful.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

pokerroomace

11-02-2006, 11:45 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

hand 1 is all about the read on the initial raiser. thats why i reraised with 62s on the flop. but i'm not disagreeing with you if you think i should have raised more.

do you not think that the river bet on hand 1 is good? if he is on a flush draw, which i think he is (he told me afterwards he was - may not be reliable though), then he won't call my $3 bet. he'll have to reraise or fold.
if he folds over 1 in 5.5 times i make a profit. i think he'll definitely fold that many times. he might even be folding that most of the time. i think he will actually call or reraise less than 50% of the time. and all i need is 18%. so do you not think it's a good play?
do you think that this is not a good play at low stakes or high stakes or both?

thanks for the advice. i'll keep on grinding away.

also, how should i be playing 6man nl. should i only play the best hands? if i do that, then i don't get paid off when i hit. i make a PF raise with my AA and everyone will fold. with a looser table image you get paid off more. right?

does no one at this site play an aggressive style of poker, like dan negreanu or doyle brunson or gus hansen for example. all the pros play very aggressively. why does no one at this site advocate playing aggressively or learning how to play aggressively?

thanks

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

dpe8598

11-02-2006, 11:56 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

do you not think that the river bet on hand 1 is good? if he is on a flush draw, which i think he is (he told me afterwards he was - may not be reliable though), then he won't call my $3 bet. he'll have to reraise or fold.
if he folds over 1 in 5.5 times i make a profit. i think he'll definitely fold that many times. he might even be folding that most of the time. i think he will actually call or reraise less than 50% of the time. and all i need is 18%. so do you not think it's a good play?
do you think that this is not a good play at low stakes or high stakes or both?

No, this is not a good play. As was already mentioned, this was a bad play because your bluff gives no value. If he was going for a flush, you probably have him beat anyway and you dont need to bluff. Your A high wins. Its the classic case of a bluff only scaring away hands you already had beat and only getting called by hands that beat you. The entire point of a bluff is to chase away a hand that has you beat. According to you, this guy didnt even have you beat.

No one is saying playing aggressive is bad, playing aggressive is awesome. However, blind aggression is very bad and the three hands above are examples of blind aggression. If your running a good bluff, the player should be able to put you on a hand that beats him. I'm not seeing strong lines in the above hands, only blind aggression.

Turska

11-03-2006, 06:32 AM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 254

these all hands are quite bad. Especially hand 1. Against
real aggressive player you would be a toast.

I dont bluff very often but when I do I have:

1) Position in relatively small pot

and/or

2) Actual outs to make my hand to beat TPTK

T.

pokerroomace

11-03-2006, 01:59 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

but in hand 1 i don't have him beat! i have 6 high! i'm sure that the hand he threw away was better than mine.

in hand 1 i have 6d2d! i don't understand what your saying on hand 1. did you misread it?

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

dpe8598

11-03-2006, 03:38 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

Oops, I do see it now. Still really bad play. There is a small chance that you are getting a better high card hand to fold, but anyone w/ anything at all at this point is calling your river bet. Again, it is good that you are considering pot odds etc w/ your bet, but even w/ the favorable odds this bluff simply will not work enough to work.

Sheetah

11-03-2006, 04:37 PM

#18 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

On the river, I made a small bet because I had good odds to win the pot. It only had to work 1 in 5 times to work.

But it also tends to make them call more with any semi-decent hand cause 'It only had to work 1 in 5 times to work.'

Btw, where is the dividing line to get the best of both worlds? 1/2 pot? 2/3 pot?

dpe8598

11-03-2006, 04:53 PM

#19 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheetah

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

On the river, I made a small bet because I had good odds to win the pot. It only had to work 1 in 5 times to work.

But it also tends to make them call more with any semi-decent hand cause 'It only had to work 1 in 5 times to work.'

Btw, where is the dividing line to get the best of both worlds? 1/2 pot? 2/3 pot?

In these situations I always bet 1/2 pot. That is, when I have air and I think they are holding almost nothing I bet maybe a little more than 1/2. Honestly, once you start getting close to full pot, people start getting more suspicious. You want them to think they are making a good lay down. Nonetheless, the river bluff is overrated and the flop and turn bluff i way underrated.

pgil

11-03-2006, 05:04 PM

#20 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,103

i just don't see the point in limping a 62s. if you raise and isolate then you will have an easier time taking down a smallish pot with your nothing. open limping weak suited crap is just a recipe for disaster.

I think a slightly larger river bet would be in order as well, as a bottom pair will call that too often. actually making the bet into the busted flush draw is the right idea though.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

pokerroomace

11-05-2006, 02:17 AM

#21 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgil

i don't want bottom pair to fold in this situation. i want K hi and worse to fold. also, can i just say that my opponent thought that i had trips because of my tiny bet on the river.

also, i was limping into the hand with 62s because i was trying to play like a maniac. other players notice that you're playing this way and you can get paid off big sometimes when you really shouldn't.

i may have gone a bit too far - but i was experimenting. i heard on the cardplayer podcast - phil ivey saying that you should try play every hand and try bluff every hand. that's how i was playing. i was trying to take every pot i could get my hands on (unless there was a preflop raise or something like that)

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

melinda27

11-05-2006, 04:37 AM

#22 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 165

IMO you played all of these very bad, you arent playing aggressive with this you're just throwing your chips away. You arent playing finite poker where you're in a rush to accumulate chips like the 3 tournament players you mentioned. You're playing infinite poker where the chips are reloadable. Your opponents arent paying any attention to you. Always play aggressive sometimes play loose but never play reckless and thats what these are. Your bluffs werent good, your opponents were just bad. Just keep at it but pick your spots. These arent good spots

pgil

11-05-2006, 05:36 AM

#23 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

you do (or should) want bottom pr to fold, because it beats you. Limping weak hands is not going to create a maniac image. raising and reraising would be much more effective for that

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

Elexshun

11-05-2006, 08:23 AM

#24 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Da planet Earf

Posts: 46

Theeone:

"Do not bluff. I repeat...do not bluff. Save yourself some cash. Save bluffing for tourneys when stack size, position, and ITM conspire together to make it +EV"

Beeep sorry sir the correct answer was do bluff better luck next time

Bluffing is the key to scooping up small pots consistently. If I am in a large hand then I am not going to bluff because I will either have a respectable hand or I would have folded. Learning how to steal those small pots is a huge part of playing profitable poker. When you don't think anyone has a decent hand, then shame on you if you don't try to take the pot. But of course this doesn't involve mindlessly throwing chips in the pot, for the billionth time it's an art.

As to the three bluffs. The only thing really bad I saw was the preflop raise in hand 3. The only thing I liked was the "dammmmm" when the flop hit.

pokerroomace

11-05-2006, 09:47 PM

#25 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

Ok. thanks guys for all the advice. i've stopped playing like a maniac now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexshun

The only thing I liked was the "dammmmm" when the flop hit.

lol. i don't know why i did it. i know it's amateur

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

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