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JL
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04-08-2008, 09:13 PM
Post subject: 3-betting Shortstacks From The Blinds
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Villain is 20BB shortstack running 8/7 with att. to steal 30+.
Hero's image is Tagg running 15/13.
Villain is either CO or BTN.
Villain raises 4xBB, folded to Hero in BB who 3bet/shoves with what???
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frosst
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
Posts: 220
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depends on your notes of villian. chances are you should've seen a couple of showdowns by him already, so you should know what he's raising with, and play your cards accordingly. for example if you've seen villian raise 4xbb with any ace, then you should be pushing with any pocket pair and AT+ since your range would be ahead of his. but if he's only raising 4x with 88-JJ, than you should only be coming over the top with QQ+. i think the basis for your question is blind defense, and the short answer is its not worth defending your blinds with marginal hands because the villian doesnt have the size stack to make it profitable
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i definitely 3 bet and call his shove with JJ+ and AK. TT is really close.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
i definitely 3 bet and call his shove with JJ+ and AK. TT is really close.
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With an att. blind steal % at 30%, I would think we should be 3betting a wider range than that.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Those stats seem weird. Does he play from any position at all other than button?
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Just playing to improve.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Those stats seem weird. Does he play from any position at all other than button?
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I have stats on 2 regulars that have stats very similar to that.
The one I have the most hands against is running 8.77/8.25/2.2/32.48.
Thats vpip/pfr/agg/att to steal
Here is a screenshot of his position stats:
It looks as if he is raising the same from all positions except the button and cut-off. I'd say he is raising 99+ AQo+ from positions 2-7.
His "raise first in" and PFR % are very close to each other on the BTN, so obviously he is only raising a lot when it's folded to him and plays super tight otherwise.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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77+
AQ+
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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You have fold equity so I might raise even wider than Drew. I'd probs shove 66+/AJ
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I thought considering that he's raising OTB and we have FE we'd shove a pretty wide range here..
I'd ballpark 30%, though I have absolutely no idea how to come to the right conclusion.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Sounds like he's raising extremely wide the times its folded to him, surely we can 3-bet/push profitably with a wide range here?
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Just playing to improve.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I would say 77-TT, AJ+, KJ+. JJ and better I would consider calling to get it in on all flops.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Sounds like he's raising extremely wide the times its folded to him, surely we can 3-bet/push profitably with a wide range here?
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WAY WIDER! Its 20bb. What are you guys so afraid of? You guys only reraising shoving JJ+/AK are free fucking money (and, coincidently, where I make 90% of my money) so please have a seat on my left.
This is one hell of a -EV post.
If hes truly raising 30% OTB (and i doubt he is, it looks like variance. How the hell else do you get 8/8 with a 30% steal?) then reraise and call a shove with 22+,A5s+,K9s+,A7o+ or so until he adjusts.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
I thought considering that he's raising OTB and we have FE we'd shove a pretty wide range here..
I'd ballpark 30%, though I have absolutely no idea how to come to the right conclusion.
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Dear FTR: If you think you have folding equity against an 8/8 who has 20BB behind, youre fucking retarded. I dont care what position he"s in, or how much hes "stealing" over a small sample size.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
I thought considering that he's raising OTB and we have FE we'd shove a pretty wide range here..
I'd ballpark 30%, though I have absolutely no idea how to come to the right conclusion.
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Dear FTR: If you think you have folding equity against an 8/8 who has 20BB behind, youre fucking retarded. I dont care what position he"s in, or how much hes "stealing" over a small sample size. |
Of course we have FE.
If he raises to 3 or 4X BB with something like J9 sooted and we shove for 20BB, there is no way in hell he is calling.
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Andrew
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
I thought considering that he's raising OTB and we have FE we'd shove a pretty wide range here..
I'd ballpark 30%, though I have absolutely no idea how to come to the right conclusion.
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Dear FTR: If you think you have folding equity against an 8/8 who has 20BB behind, youre fucking retarded. I dont care what position he"s in, or how much hes "stealing" over a small sample size. |
Of course we have FE.
If he raises to 3 or 4X BB with something like J9 sooted and we shove for 20BB, there is no way in hell he is calling. |
8/8 means he is playing 8% of his hands and raising with all of them? That's 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs+ and AJo+. Is he REALLY folding any of this after entering the pot already?
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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He is raising much wider than 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs+ and AJo+ on the button.
1 in 3 times its folded to him on the button he's raising. Thats not 8%. 8% comes from being like 5/5 in every other position and then stealing with a huge range.
We push wide because our range beats his range making it +EV whether he calls or not.
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Just playing to improve.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Seriously I restole many times from 20BB stacks with similar stats and they folded occasionally so yes we have FE.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Caling Taipan...
This totally sounds like a SnGWiz problem
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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wtf kind of non retarded shortstack raises 4x? 2.5x is standard. and if they do that on the button and i am in the big blind, i shove like 1/3 of my hands.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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my general rule of thumb with stacking against shorties is 44+, AJ+ KQ. in my experience, like nutsinho said, shorties normally raise 2.5x, no one raises 4x. some also like to just open shove.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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