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sarbox68
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09-14-2008, 11:53 PM
Post subject: 3-bet range w/ HEM
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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This should be simple, but I'm not getting it...
so the Total 3-bet stat in HEM... if it's 6%, that means vil 3-bet 6% of the times they had the opportunity to do so. Since we can assume (I think...) that vil would have PFR'd this hand if there was no previous raise, this represents the top end of their PFR stat. So if PFR is 12%, a 6% total 3-bet stat is the top half of their PFR range... (stop me anytime I'm going of the rail here....) So does this mean that I can use 6% as a range for 3-bets in the same way I would if their PFR was 6%? (88+, ATs+,KQs+,AQo+) Or is that wrong, because PFR is a % of total hands possible, vs 3-bet is a % of total raised hands?
I think I got this sh!t completely twisted..... 
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daven
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09-15-2008, 01:33 AM
Post subject: Re: 3-bet range w/ HEM
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#2 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
so the Total 3-bet stat in HEM... if it's 6%, that means vil 3-bet 6% of the times they had the opportunity to do so.
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this is right
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Since we can assume (I think...) that vil would have PFR'd this hand if there was no previous raise, this represents the top end of their PFR stat.
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this is wrong.
someone who is good enough to be 3-betting even a little light is also good enough to be using situation to decide when to 3-bet. My 3-bet range from the BB vs a loose stealer who folds to 3-bets a lot is disgusting. Yet at the same time, there are one or two nits I play against that only open KK+, and never fold these hands pre- or post-. Here my 3-bet range is AA, and I'm flatting with QQ.
Be very careful assigning ranges using the 3-bet stat...
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Here's something you might be overlooking fatb. A player who has a 3b % of say 6% is 3betting on average 6%. But that doesn't take into account the situation, such as position, player, etc. A good player that is 3betting light (as 6% would dictate) is gonna be doing so when a good situation arises. That means they are gonna be 3betting less from EP/MP than from LP, and they are gonna be 3betting players who open in MP/LP, more often than players who open from EP. Therfore, you need to factor in position when you are looking at a 3b range for them. If it says they are 3betting 6% and they are UTG+1 3betting an UTG open, it will be much less than 6%. Same goes for if they are on the BU 3betting an UTG open. It will be less than they would 3b a CO open.
Also while pokerstoves 6% range is the top 6% of hands, it generally isn't a good indicator of the hands that players are 3betting with. For instance, as we know from spoons "Hand Combos" thread, it is better to 3b a hand like A4s than a hand like 88, for obvious blocker reasons. So by just plugging 6% into pokerstove you will generally get a screwed up range imo. You should weight their range more towards hands like Axs, suited gappers, etc (aka hands you would consider C range hands), if you suspect they are 3betting light.
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