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flyingPenguin
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05-25-2006, 09:01 AM
Post subject: 3% PFR
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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If someone has a PFR% of 3, does that imply their raising range is only AA and KK? What about 5%?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).
So no in short.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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AA and KK combined make up slightly less then 1% of total card combinations. 12/1326 to be exact.
All pocket pairs are dealt 6 ways. All unpaired cards are dealt 16 ways (12 offsuit, 4 suited). There are a total of 1326 total combinations (52*51/divided by 2 since order doesn't matter). Hope that helps.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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OK thanks. I've run into two fools with 3%PFR who have minraised on the flop. I've reraised with KK and ended up being beaten by their AA both times.
I'll have to get this pokerstove thingy. Sounds useful.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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yeah it's a nice little tool
www.pokerstove.com is the link I believe
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
All pocket pairs are dealt 6 ways. All unpaired cards are dealt 16 ways (12 offsuit, 4 suited). There are a total of 1326 total combinations (52*51/divided by 2 since order doesn't matter). Hope that helps.
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The divide by 2 helps. Thanks.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Sounds like AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ or something to me.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Damn that pokerstove is nice. I've been using this very limited calculator all this time. Thx.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Something to keep in mind is that not all 3% pfr are the same. It is probably rarer at NL than limit (I play mostly limit), but I have seen a few people with very low pfr% who never raise premium hands. They think they are being clever and will raise junk like 9Ts. Just something to keep an eye on, because when one of these guys raises, you know they don't have the premium pocket pair.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).
So no in short.
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A tighter 3% range is JJ+;AK (suited or offsuit).
But that doesn't mean that this is what this guy's range is.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chardrian
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).
So no in short.
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A tighter 3% range is JJ+;AK (suited or offsuit).
But that doesn't mean that this is what this guy's range is. |
This is an excellent point.
A lot of ultraweaktightpassives limp AA/KK/AK for deception.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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if you have a VPIP of 50%
and a PFR of 50%%
doesnt that mean that you are raising 25% of hands?
becuase when u raise u VPIP...
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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No, it means you raise every pot you enter
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
No, it means you raise every pot you enter
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okkk
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
No, it means you raise every pot you enter
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Except for checking the big blind or checking after posting.
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
if you have a VPIP of 50%
and a PFR of 50%%
doesnt that mean that you are raising 25% of hands?
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No, it means you need to cut down on the 'roids.
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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I think the 3% PFR could be something like
AA
KK
AKs
AKo
QQ
JJ
That makes up for 3%
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check. |
That calculation doesn't work because unpaired cards are dealt in more ways than paired cards.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check. |
The problem with your analysis is that it is less likely to get a pp or a suited hand than it is to get any of the 78 unsuited non-pairs. I.e. it is 1/221 to get a specific PP like AA, 1/331 to get a specific suited hand like AKs, but it is 1/110 to get a specific offusit hand like AKos.
Anyhoo - the easiest way to get ranges is simply to get pokerstove and punch in some hands.
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