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2NL, 88, stupid shove?

  
 
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shoneec
Old 06-23-2009, 05:21 PM     Post subject: 2NL, 88, stupid shove? #1 (permalink)  
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No history on the villain, I played a few hands at the table when this happened.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($3.34)
MP ($5.16)
Villain (CO) ($3.25)
Button ($5.04)
Hero (SB) ($1.85)
BB ($2.14)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, Villain bets $0.26, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.56) K, 2, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.59 (All-In), Villain calls $1.59

Turn: ($3.74) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($3.74) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $3.74 | Rake: $0.15

Results:
Hero had 8, 8 (two pair, eights and twos).
Villain had 10, 10 (two pair, tens and twos).
Outcome: Villain won $3.59

Was I stupid here for shoving the flop and representing a K?

It looks like there is a general rule for the 2NLers to raise 7xbb+ on small pocket pairs. At least from my experience.

Or is it that my villain is stupid enough to call in this situation?
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Stacks
Old 06-23-2009, 05:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 You thought process is pretty off base here. If you think his range is so wide and full of retarded stuff like small pps and air, then why not check the flop and let him put in more money with his air rather than shoving and having him fold those hands?

(1) Would you shove the flop against a retard if you actually had a king? I doubt it, so how can shoving the flop be credibly repping a King?

(2) If his range is actually small pps say (22-TT), and you think he will call that entire range to a shove, then shoving isn't bad, as you are ahead of that range and expect to get called often.

However, his range also likely includes a fair amount of air hands like QJ, JT, AJ, AQ etc, that will fold to your shove. And these are all hands that you beat, that will likely cbet the flop.
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davekp2003
Old 06-23-2009, 05:30 PM #3 (permalink)  
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IMO opinion at these levels no one is laying down a semi strong pocket pair. I think the best advice is wait until you have a hand and push that. Also that's a pretty big raise for pocket 8's I recently read an article that states that's a -ev play.
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shoneec
Old 06-23-2009, 05:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
(1) Would you shove the flop against a retard if you actually had a king? I doubt it, so how can shoving the flop be credibly repping a King?
Fuck. You're totally right. I just made him call me by shoving.

I'll work on these situations more. Thank you!
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Stacks
Old 06-23-2009, 05:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Np. Just keep in mind that even if you did play a King in this manner (which is def not advisable), doing the same with 88 to "rep" the kind is likely incorrect in most spots, and espeically this one.

This is a spot where is you bet the flop with 88 like you did, you are rarely going to have villain call with a worse hand than yours. If the villain is bad then he might call with 33-77, and maybe some Ace highs, but those hands will usually fold.

So when you do get called it will be by better hands. And the times he folds, he is usually folding a hand that you beat (such as 33-77, A-highs). So instead of betting and not getting many (if any) worse hands to call, and folding only a few (if any) better hands, it's usually better to check and evaluate after villain makes a decision.
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