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WeaselT
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11-06-2009, 04:46 AM
Post subject: 25NL turn sucks?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winter Park
Posts: 300
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CO was kind of a shortstack shove monkey, MP was a freakin station 38/2 over 50h.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($22.25)
CO ($6.85)
Button ($25)
SB ($15.60)
BB ($35.90)
Hero (UTG) ($26.55)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , K
Hero bets $1, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, 3 folds
Flop: ($3.35) A, 10, J (3 players)
Hero bets $2.50, MP calls $2.50, 1 fold
Turn: ($8.35) K
gotta bet the turn right? but how much?
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scfc_andy15
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
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So CO has $3.35 left right?? Well then you are going to try and get the money in regardless, so I would check turn and see if he wants to rep the queen, he if checks behind then just shove him in on the river. Because i don't think he is calling without a Q often but when checked might think you were just making a c-bet? and shove the turn. I don't the value of betting the turn tbh?
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"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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CO folded :/
Definately a bet imo, MP can have a bunch of weak ass hands here as well as some flush draws and probably doesnt raise those. If we're lucky, he'd only raise the turn with Qx hands...but he probably does it with his JT, KJ, KT, AT, AJ hands as well...
Cuz of that, we probably have to call a raise (maybe even shove over) so i bet like 6 or so, hes got 13 left so probably call a raise or just get it in on a buncha rivs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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scfc_andy15
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
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it was earlier i was tired, i am going to delete my post now....
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"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
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altruist
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Two Pair
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 30
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I agree with JKDS, bet turn, infact, shove turn since opponent only has $3.35 left. Pot is too large to fold for $3.35, given villain could have a flush draw.
Not betting the turn gives a flush draw free outs, which he may very well choose to take. You also don't want to give him a walk to a split pot either. Bet max. If villain had a larger stack, it'd be a different story.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Altruist, you're misreading the HH, villain isn't the CO anymore, he has ~19 left b4 we bet, I bet the turn, calling a shove, and betting the river if just called on turn. EZ game.
Edit: Anywhere from 5-7 is good on the turn, setting up an easy shove.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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We should be setting up the river pot so that it's slightly more than the remaining stacks. Then we can decide between shoving or check/calling depending on what we know about our opponent, etc.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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Just so I can understand this:
So are we not worried about villain having a Q? Or is there so much more in his range besides a Q that we have to proceed like we are ahead?
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I confess in quicksand
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Basically, hes going to have a ton of two pair, pair + FD, etc in his range that it makes it profitable to continue to bet here. Besides, even if he as a Q, we haz 4 outs! 
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Dex
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bringing the mind home.
Posts: 172
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This is the kind of spot where betting is best. You don't want to check the turn and have him check behind a hand like 2 pair he may call a bet with, or draw to a flush for free. He's a calling station. Give him something to call.
Code:
7,348 games 0.001 secs 7,348,000 games/sec
Board: Ah Ts Js Kc
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 64.392% 59.15% 05.25% 4346 385.50 { AsKh }
Hand 1: 35.608% 30.36% 05.25% 2231 385.50 { A2s+, KQs, KTs, Q9s+, JTs, 98s, A2o+, KQo, KTo, Q9o+, JTo, 98o }
Bet $5.50 on the turn, if they flat then the pot on the river is $19.35 and villain with $13.25 behind, ship the rest in. If villain ships the turn meh, you're calling it off with $13.25 into $32.60 which is pretty reasonable against a range that has more than a touch of retard to it, and if he has the straight just spike an A or K. EZ game.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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If we use ABCD you now have a B hand against a calling station. Pot control it.. there may be some thin value on the river.
Check/fold turn. If he checks turn, bet/fold river.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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I don't think you see how much value we are missing by checking this turn Outlaw. He's calling with so much worse (keywords here are: CALLING STATION) all day. Its obv not a mistake to check here, but if we want to get maximum value out of our hand, we have to bet enough to get stacks in on the river. You're giving up too much to FDs, and giving other two pairs infinite odds to draw against our hand. That plus the fact we have 4 outs (give or take) + possibly 3 outs to chop = this is a bet.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
If we use ABCD you now have a B hand against a calling station. Pot control it.. there may be some thin value on the river.
Check/fold turn. If he checks turn, bet/fold river.
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using the term "pot control" when we're playing against stations with a hand that's going to call down with a plethora of worse hands isn't often a good idea. let's go get AJ, AT, KJ, KT, JT, and sometimes various other Ax's stack and squeeze one more street of value out of a chasing FD.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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WeaselT
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Flush
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winter Park
Posts: 300
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K so say we bet 5.50$ and he just calls, river is 7h. Pot=$19.35 and we have $17.55 opp has $13.25. If we bet he can shove over ez, if we check he can shove over ez. Can we really fold in either scenario, pretty much if he has Q its just GG yeah?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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@dranger, I think checking the turn is a pretty big mistake. Also it took me like 10 minutes to find a picture that really helped to express how I feel.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,460
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lmfao ^
definately bet the turn for value, and never give villain credit for turning a made hand into a bluff if you get raised. (same goes for if he has a flush draw etc)
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,801
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I like bet-folding the turn $5. Villain is never bluffing as a raise here, but calls his flush draws/weaker two pairs/random aces here a bunch.
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