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25NL: TP 4way flop

  
 
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kfaess
Old 09-09-2010, 12:17 AM     Post subject: 25NL: TP 4way flop #1 (permalink)  
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 Vill is total unknown at this point in the session.



$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG JooLi ($18.27)
CO FonzzySVK ($26.11)
BTN ROYRAND91 ($15.90)
SB Hero ($26.78)
BB Jarmuli ($24.65)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is SB
JooLi calls $0.25, 1 fold, ROYRAND91 raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.65, Jarmuli calls $0.50, JooLi calls $0.50

Flop: ($3, 4 players)
Hero bets $2.25, Jarmuli calls $2.25, 2 folds

Turn: ($7.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $4.50, Jarmuli raises to $12.75, $8.25 to Hero ($19.28)?


Is this a standard fold? I rep a pretty strong hand by leading into pot 4 way, but I do this because I think its fairly likely the flop will get checked through and I want to get value from the fish who is third to act and I don't want to give free cards to three other hands.
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philly and the phanatics
Old 09-09-2010, 12:42 AM #2 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
 whats the fish's stats, usually id 3b bluff here with 2 great blockers rather than playing KQo without initiative or position hella multiway.

i like the flop lead, also turn lead is good, id maybe bet more like 5 to make it even easier getting his stack in on the river. It sucks cause hes a short stacker and you dont know if he could be doing this with KJ, K9.

If he doesnt ever do this with KJ or K9 then its clearly a fold as AK KT 8x KK and TT are all his likely raising range and crushes you. If you think cause he's so short he is realizing you are going to put him in on the river and wants to take advantage of any FE he might have (and apparently there is some cause you folded this hand im assuming) and is making a play with KJ K9, QQ, QJ, and club draws, then obviously this becomes a call.

i want to discount flush draws because i think he would have raised on the flop if he was going to raise, not on the turn after his equity halved and the board paired, but who knows maybe hes a huge retard.

you need 25% equity and against a range of AK KT 8x KK and TT you have 6% equity rofl

against a range of AK KT 8x (98s, 78s, A8) KK TT KQ KJ K9 QQ - you still only have 24% equity so you need to start throwing in some QJ and some Clubs before this becomes a clear call, as you dont have those reads i would probably fold.

If you take out 8x from his range and keep the worse K's this becomes an ez call.
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Carroters
Old 09-09-2010, 01:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Carroters has a spectacular aura aboutCarroters has a spectacular aura about
 Yeah a squeeze here is likely okay, since you'll get folds a tonne, pikcing up dead monies, and your hand has okayish equitees if called. Flatting is also fine though and if I don't know much about the isoer I'm just gonna flat here all day since I'll dominate a ton of the limper and BU's ranges; our hand plays fine multiway here. There's merit to keeping the fish in the hand.

As played it's fine and just fold the turn now. When he calls the flop 4 handed he's rarely fucking about on this turn card. Assume 8x KT TT make up most of his range unless shown otherwise.

 
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kfaess
Old 09-09-2010, 01:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics View Post
id maybe bet more like 5 to make it even easier getting his stack in on the river. It sucks cause hes a short stacker and you dont know if he could be doing this with KJ, K9.
yea very good point, I like a bigger bet on turn now that I look at it.


JooLi is a 60/13 fish over 25 hands. Normally I don't like to rely on stats over 25 hands but we also know he's a fish because he didn't buy in full and he limp/called PF.

Royrand91 is unknown.

Jarmuli is unknown and is the guy that calls us and raises the turn. He has a full stack here. So the fish folds and we end up playing a pot vs this guy.

I'd tend to not put KK in his range because he's 2nd to last to act PF and prob doesn't want to take a pot 4way with it.
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Carroters
Old 09-09-2010, 01:16 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Wait misread pre, it was BU that isoed, defo calling preflop. If Bu's range is at all wide then 3 bet bluff with hands that you can't flat with and lol dominate their ranges, or play hella proifitably vs the fish. Something like K6s is better to 3 bet bluff with.

 
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kfaess
Old 09-09-2010, 01:17 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 sorry philly missed the squeeze comment.

Yea agree that squeezing should be considered here. Calling and squeezing are both prob +ev. I think in some cases it can be for value as well but that depends on more specific reads obv
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