Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

25NL medium pp faces turn lead

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
BluffCheck
Old 06-26-2009, 12:43 AM     Post subject: 25NL medium pp faces turn lead #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 48
BluffCheck
My thinking on the flop is that betting makes his worse hands fold and only better hands call or raise, like Qx/8x/TT/JJ, so I plan on betting any non scary turn if checked to me, or calling a small bet. The A is rather scary however, and when villain leads should we call or fold? Raising seems out of the question since we would be bluffing when we have a medium strength hand.

Villain 18/3, 2.3 AF and 58 AFq:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($26.90)
SB ($27.93)
BB ($6.18)
UTG ($26.66)
Hero (UTG+1) ($25)
MP1 ($10.99)
MP2 ($30.71)
CO ($14.63)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9, 9
1 fold, Hero bets $0.85, 5 folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80) 8, 8, Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.80) A (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero ????

Total pot: $1.80 | Rake: $0.09
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Carroters
Old 06-26-2009, 12:53 AM #2 (permalink)  
Carroters's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
Carroters has a spectacular aura aboutCarroters has a spectacular aura about
 Fold this turn since you only beat bluffs and you're really only calling to cross your fingers that he doesn't bet the river which he will a lot of the time. Ez fold.

We can bet this flop though since he'll call with worse pairs and we'll likely get to check back the turn for pot control.

 
Reply With Quote
AFchung
Old 06-26-2009, 03:27 AM #3 (permalink)  
AFchung's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
AFchung
Send a message via AIM to AFchung
cbet the flop. we should be betting our entire range on a dry board like that

as played fold the turn
http://afchung.blogspot.com/
 
Reply With Quote
Illfavor
Old 06-26-2009, 03:34 AM #4 (permalink)  
Illfavor's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
Illfavor will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Illfavor Send a message via Skype™ to Illfavor
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
cbet the flop. we should be betting our entire range on a dry board like that
Please explain.
Ich grolle nicht...
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 06-26-2009, 03:47 AM #5 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 betting here would be 'merging out range' right?
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Stacks
Old 06-26-2009, 05:04 AM #6 (permalink)  
Stacks's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
Stacks will become famous soon enoughStacks will become famous soon enough
 I think it's played fine if you fold here. Betting the flop is only hoping from called from 77- or OOP floats from A-highs. Which in both cases, while not entirely unreasonably, might be a bit of a stretch without reads that he is a station.

Checking back is likely to get a bluff from the rest of his range that we beat on safe turns that we can call. And if he checks the turn, we get a good bit of information, and can feel pretty comfortable about our hand (depending on turn card). In which we can then value bet the turn, and maybe the river.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 07:21 AM #7 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
betting here would be 'merging out range' right?
yeah
basically when you don't expect people to just believe you right away it could be good
but that's why it needs reads
Quote:
18/3, 2.3 AF and 58 AFq
FYI not a read

so if he loves calling these flops with Ax because he's a fish then it's a clear bet
if he's a terrible nit and folds like everything below a queen it's a bet (!) because we're making him fold JJ, TT and hands that he doesn't know have 6 of outs like AJ
if he's the type who never believes you have have anything and autofloats this flop with garbage, it's a bet on the flop, bet on the turn
if he's the type to c/r dry flops because lol you have nothing it's a check on the flop and call the turn on like any card other than K or A pretty much (fold this though)
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 06-26-2009, 11:42 AM #8 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
autofloats this flop with garbage, it's a bet on the flop, bet on the turn
i don't get why we bet the flop against a floater. isn't that going to force us to fold the turn much more often than we'd like with our SD value? unless you misread the HH and thought we were OOP, then it makes sense to me

other than that pretty much full agreement here. value bet A-rag fish and sooooted fish who have a fold to f cbet of like <30%, and cbet nits as a bluff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
minSim
Old 06-26-2009, 11:43 AM #9 (permalink)  
minSim's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
minSim
I like cbetting flop. Checking behind is very transparant imo, to a degree that if villain is even thinking about our hand he knows he shouldn't be bluffing turn because we're always calling.

Ofcourse if you're checking behind a balanced range there are other lines with this hand as well, but at micro's I think cbetting 100% here is balancing enough.
Reply With Quote
Parasurama
Old 06-26-2009, 12:29 PM #10 (permalink)  
Parasurama's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
Parasurama
Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
autofloats this flop with garbage, it's a bet on the flop, bet on the turn
i don't get why we bet the flop against a floater. isn't that going to force us to fold the turn much more often than we'd like with our SD value? unless you misread the HH and thought we were OOP, then it makes sense to me

other than that pretty much full agreement here. value bet A-rag fish and sooooted fish who have a fold to f cbet of like <30%, and cbet nits as a bluff.
Huh? Why would we be forced to fold the turn when we're in position unless you mean villain's going to lead or c/r the turn a lot? We don't really have any reason to believe that. If he's floating a lot then it's definitely bet flop/bet turn.
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 06-26-2009, 02:23 PM #11 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parasurama
Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
autofloats this flop with garbage, it's a bet on the flop, bet on the turn
i don't get why we bet the flop against a floater. isn't that going to force us to fold the turn much more often than we'd like with our SD value? unless you misread the HH and thought we were OOP, then it makes sense to me

other than that pretty much full agreement here. value bet A-rag fish and sooooted fish who have a fold to f cbet of like <30%, and cbet nits as a bluff.
Huh? Why would we be forced to fold the turn when we're in position unless you mean villain's going to lead or c/r the turn a lot? We don't really have any reason to believe that. If he's floating a lot then it's definitely bet flop/bet turn.
my bad. i thought the definition of a float play was calling a cbet with the intention of bluffing the turn (or at least a good portion of potential turn cards), which would involve either leading the turn or c/r'ing. i guess i need clarification on this definition
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 02:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
OOP floats go like this:
call cbet
check turn, if villain checks turn back stab river
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 02:35 PM #13 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
OOP floats go like this:
call cbet
check turn, if villain checks turn back stab river
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 06-26-2009, 02:46 PM #14 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
 oh...k. lol i guess the bet, bet line makes much more sense now then
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
nish81
Old 06-26-2009, 05:07 PM #15 (permalink)  
nish81's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 295
nish81
I think c-betting the flop is fine here unless you're trying not to always c-bet, in which case this is a good hand to c-bet since it has some showdown value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I think it's played fine if you fold here. Betting the flop is only hoping from called from 77- or OOP floats from A-highs. Which in both cases, while not entirely unreasonably, might be a bit of a stretch without reads that he is a station.

Checking back is likely to get a bluff from the rest of his range that we beat on safe turns that we can call. And if he checks the turn, we get a good bit of information, and can feel pretty comfortable about our hand (depending on turn card). In which we can then value bet the turn, and maybe the river.
If he checks the turn, how can we value bet, as wont he fold with most hands worse than ours? (Going back to the renton's ABCD theorem thing, isn't this hand part of our B range - hands which have showdown value but should see little or no action, so checking back the turn might be best?)
<JustinSKS> Tha'ts why I fold my 33 to 72o, because 7 high beats, 1 pair, donk.

JR: lets do it JUAN
JR: mono e mono
JR: man to man
JR: HU4ROLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Dealer: juan0984 folds
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 07:52 PM #16 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by nish81
I think c-betting the flop is fine here unless you're trying not to always c-bet, in which case this is a good hand to c-bet since it has some showdown value.
it's the opposite, if we want to show it down we should check, if we want to protect our equity in the hand by making people fold overs we should bet and hope for a fold, but be OK with a call as long as we don't get any more action
Reply With Quote
nish81
Old 06-27-2009, 09:19 AM #17 (permalink)  
nish81's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 295
nish81
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by nish81
I think c-betting the flop is fine here unless you're trying not to always c-bet, in which case this is a good hand to c-bet since it has some showdown value.
it's the opposite, if we want to show it down we should check, if we want to protect our equity in the hand by making people fold overs we should bet and hope for a fold, but be OK with a call as long as we don't get any more action

Oops, I meant to write 'check' instead of c-bet for showdown value >_<
<JustinSKS> Tha'ts why I fold my 33 to 72o, because 7 high beats, 1 pair, donk.

JR: lets do it JUAN
JR: mono e mono
JR: man to man
JR: HU4ROLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Dealer: juan0984 folds
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:16 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.