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25NL: Looking for you guys to bring the pain.

  
 
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shysti
Old 06-03-2009, 01:40 AM     Post subject: 25NL: Looking for you guys to bring the pain. #1 (permalink)  
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 Criticism that is, last night was my first real 25NL session as I am deciding to focus on NL Ring for now instead of tournaments. I started with only one table and within an hour I was already up over 1 buy in.

I thought great! This is awesome, then I added another table with the same results was doing fine. At the end of my session I was up around 43 bucks. Which is good to me considering I am in no way a cash game player.

I was reading some of the articles on here during my hands that I folded and they helped a ton. Then today happened, for some reason I just played stupid poker, trying to incorporate some of the new concepts I picked up from the stickies, articles on here, plus my own stupidity it all seemed counter productive, as today I am now down $52 for a net loss of about 10 bucks.

Edit: Forgot to mention I tried 4 tables today too, but stopped as I notice my profits (variance kicking in) to shrink, so I stayed with two tables for a while then back down to 1.

So without further ado, I wanted to post my losing hands to have you guys tear them apart, be as harsh as you like, I know I donked today so you can't hurt my feelings. Plus the harsh criticism will help me in the long run. I am going to post the biggest losers, then a few of the winners from the first session.

My big losers

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($25)
Hero (MP1) ($25)
MP2 ($17.50)
MP3 ($24.15)
CO ($25.35)
Button ($25)
SB ($25)
BB ($46.45)
UTG ($30)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.50, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.35) 7, 10, 6 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3, UTG+1 raises to $9, Hero raises to $23.40 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $14.40

Turn: ($50.15) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.15) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.15

__________________________________________________

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($21.20)
BB ($24.55)
UTG ($38.10)
MP1 ($5)
MP2 ($42.70)
Hero (CO) ($31.65)
Button ($23.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, K
4 folds, Hero bets $0.75, Button calls $0.65, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.75) 6, 4, A (2 players)
Button bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3.75, Button calls $2.50

Turn: ($9.25) 7 (2 players)
Button checks, Hero bets $5, Button calls $5

River: ($19.25) 10 (2 players)
Button checks, Hero bets $7, Button calls $7

Total pot: $33.25
________________________________________________\

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($12.60)
UTG ($8.75)
UTG+1 ($6.05)
MP1 ($23.10)
MP2 ($12.45)
CO ($11.25)
Hero (Button) ($26.20)
SB ($6.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, K
5 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.10) 6, J, K (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $23.70 (All-In), BB calls $7.10 (All-In)

Turn: ($25.30) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($25.30) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $25.30
_______________________________________________

Tilt Hand, this happened after he caught the river in a previous hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($5.95)
MP3 ($33.10)
CO ($23.05)
Button ($25.75)
SB ($15.10)
Hero (BB) ($28.70)
UTG ($4.65)
UTG+1 ($9.20)
MP1 ($4.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 5 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero bets $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.25) 5, 2, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $7.70 (All-In), Hero calls $5.70

Turn: ($18.65) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($18.65) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $18.65

Those are just the hands that were about 9 bucks in total or more.
___________________________________________

A few of the winners

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($25)
SB ($5.85)
Hero (BB) ($32.25)
UTG ($7)
UTG+1 ($27.50)
MP1 ($24.60)
MP2 ($5.75)
MP3 ($28.50)
CO ($8.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, UTG raises to $3.50, CO calls $3.25, Hero raises to $32.25 (All-In), UTG calls $3.50 (All-In), CO calls $5 (All-In)

Flop: ($24.10) 5, J, 8 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($24.10) 2 (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($24.10) 5 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $24.10
____________________________________________
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($20.60)
UTG+1 ($4.65)
MP1 ($26.35)
MP2 ($35.95)
MP3 ($24.65)
CO ($25)
Hero (Button) ($28.25)
SB ($9.25)
BB ($21.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
UTG calls $0.25, 5 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.35) A, 8, 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.85) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3, UTG calls $3

River: ($10.85) 3 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7, UTG calls $7

Total pot: $24.85
______________________________________________
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($15.70)
MP3 ($29)
Hero (CO) ($55.30)
Button ($38.45)
SB ($25)
BB ($23.80)
UTG ($28.65)
UTG+1 ($4.15)
MP1 ($7.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, Q
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB bets $1.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.50) 2, 7, J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2

Turn: ($7.50) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($7.50) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $51.80 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $17.50
_________________________________________

Losers: Please critique for me
Winners: same thing, did I leave any value on the table? Played them poorly but got lucky? Keep in mind other variables that came into play, e.g: table image, position, reads etc.

Which I didn't go into detail about on the hands I played.

Thanks community!
My Poker Blog:http://shystitalkspoker.wordpress.com/
 
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sarbox68
Old 06-03-2009, 01:56 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Just a general comment as I has to catch a plane... at $25NL bluff less with nothing but crap. Semibluffs fine, but people will call you down with middle pair, draws that have better odds than your junk etc. Remember, they're mostly playing the cards in front of them... and a lot less attention to dissecting your range, etc.

I don't play tournies, and have not played higher than $50NL. I know form trolling the $100NL + posts that there's a lot more of this kinda stuff that happens. But here in the basement, I think it's only gonna result in spew....
 
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mixchange
Old 06-03-2009, 02:10 AM #3 (permalink)  
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The big thing missing from this thread is sample size. How many hands? You probably played less than 500 i am assuming? your results are statistically irrelevant
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shysti
Old 06-03-2009, 03:18 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
The big thing missing from this thread is sample size. How many hands? You probably played less than 500 i am assuming? your results are statistically irrelevant
Yeah, I know that much be true, I am more concerned with catching any leaks you guys may see early that why I can seal them before they result into long term bad habits. But I only have 810 hands, which I know is no kind of sample whatsoever.
My Poker Blog:http://shystitalkspoker.wordpress.com/
 
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JKDS
Old 06-03-2009, 03:59 AM     Post subject: Re: 25NL: Looking for you guys to bring the pain. #5 (permalink)  
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 hand 1
preflop i will generally raise a bit smaller, more like $1.1ish, 1.5 isnt horrible though.

i expect to be called by a lot of draws here, so leading is fine. when c/r'd...his range becomes nuts + draws. Ahxh has like 46% equity, so we arent really that far ahead of his draws and since he raised us, he likely isnt folding any of those draws he raised. Then if we raise we must be doing it for value. we got like 40% equity or so...so i kinda dislike raising.

i think if we called, the blank turn would be the place to get it in since we pick up some equity due to the draws chance to hit being cut in half. theres certainly an arguement for folding as well...since while we have odds to call on the flop, we will be forced into a bunch of way behind or ahead but villain has a bunch of outs situation.

hand 2
raise pre is fine
im assuimg button is actually the sb...
a sb flop lead is generally pretty strong, most people play draws fairly passively though so i wouldnt expect him to lead with a club draw here. id expect alot of ax and pair hands here (as well as nut hands) and dont really see alot of his range folding to a single bet. since our hand has almost no chance of improving against his range, id rather just fold the flop and look for a better spot.

hand 3
k7o isnt bad assuming tight/passive blinds. i could see it being the bottom of a button range against others as well. once raised, this is an easy fold pre. bb 3bs are generally fairly strong so 4b bluffing doesnt have alot of use.

on the flop, his range pre was like JJ+, AK. the flop hits his range hella hard, and you're wb like all the time. hes almost never folding to a raise (qq might) so its a snap fold.

hand 4
raise is fine here, oop and two limpers, so nothing bad there.

very dry board and unlikely to hit anyone. our range is generally stronger here...so cbet is alright. i might make it a little larger...but w/e. once raised...gtfo. easy fold.

hand 5
4b size is bad IF the guys werent short stacked. since they dont have like anything behind, putting them each all in is fine. nice hand.

hand 6
pre is good
bet more on the flop, lots of draws here, so id bet at least 2/3 pot. bet a bit more on turn (im not terrified of 67, but its in his range so be warry if raised)... but this bet to pot ratio is a bit nicer. i like the river bet size.

hand 7
this hand is in my co raising range unless the button and blinds are loose aggressive or like to 3b me. not calling a raise from the sb though either way.

dry board, iffy on betting here. without a solid range for the sb its hard to tell if he folds out enough hands for a bluff to be profitable here...his line pre screams like ak or aq...so i guess.

without a solid range, its hard to decide a bet value on the river too. trying to get the rest of his stack once we hit our straight will work against his sets and two pair hands...but he folds out his tptk and over pair hands i think. unless we know which ones are more likely its hard to tell how much we can bet for max value here.

im still fairly new at bet sizing, but that seems to be a leak of yours, you also seem to be betting for the sake of betting which is a bit of a no no. Work on building ranges for your opponents and play around with equity using pokerstove.

Post reads with hand historys, and stats if you have them. if you dont have stats, its even more important that you have reads as it makes anaylzing a hand alot easier and a lot less guess work is involved. this isnt to say stats are a replacement...cuz they arent....but you need to have some idea of how your opponent plays...even something like tight/passive or LAGG before each is helpful. Having reads >>> than playing more tables. If you're 4 tabling and dont have them, play less tables.

theres probably more that i missed...but those are my initial thoughts here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
 
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shysti
Old 06-03-2009, 05:02 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Wow, this was what I was hoping for Thanks a lot, you words are very insightful. I am still having big problems learning to give my opponent ranges, I normally take notes in tournaments but haven't done so yet in cash game (doh ) but that will change.

I will only play for now at most 2 tables until I start learning these fundamentals.
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dejection08
Old 06-03-2009, 05:24 AM #7 (permalink)  

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dejection08
I was wondering if you have any prior reads on the players? Its difficult to place a hand range on just the one hand. For example in hand one. You seemed to play it overly aggressive on the flop. Against a tight or regular cash game player your more than likely only getting called by hands that beat you. Over pairs, over cards with flush draw, and of course 2 pr and sets.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:24 AM #8 (permalink)  
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needs reads
hand 1 I'd like to know if this guy is a reg who only openlimps scs and pps or if he's a fish or a maniac, etc.
hand 2 you already posted
hand 3 fold preflop against anyone
hand 4 fold flop against anyone
hand 5 why are you posting this
hand 6 bigger on the flop, he could have a lot of draws on this board or a worse ace, and betting bigger on the flop will get him all in by the river
hand 7 it's fine, but I'd like to have a read on his flop c/c as pfr because against some people it's best to bet the turn, against other people it's better to check
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