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25NL - early stat check/mini-rant

  
 
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swiggidy
Old 09-13-2006, 04:56 PM     Post subject: 25NL - early stat check/mini-rant #1 (permalink)  
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 I realize I don't have quite enough hands. But I feel like something is up.

After getting PO, I played 1.5k hands on TowerGaming which is a PokerRoom skin, I believe. I played 22/11/3 and ran 6BB/100 and I felt like I knew what was going on. (I played about 10k - 10NL hands at boss sites, with about the same results, no stats for this).

I played ~1k on Paradise and finished up only $5 (mostly due to a bad beat right at the end). But the stlye of play doesn't feel quite the same. Players were not "giving their stacks away" if you will. Turn aggression was either met with a min-raise or a fold. I'm trying to collect stats, so I move on.

I now have 1.5k hands at PartyPoker. This feels very similar to Paradise and I am not doing well. At party I'm running 22/14/2. I have been raising more pre-flop because players fold more, a lot more. It seems like people are not willing to play for stacks (I've taken 1 medium-short stack and lost mine 2-3 times, usually to a set). I'm -4BB/100 at Party right now.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed adjustments they had to make to their game going from PokerRoom to Party/Paradise (or visa-versa). I generally play during the day which I know isn't as profitable, but I had about the same experience during the night the couple times I've played (I'm trying to get more night hours in). Is it possibly variance?

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Jimmy Mac
Old 09-13-2006, 05:10 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Are you playing 6-max, or full?

I haven't played much at 'dise, but Pokerroom has the worst players online in my opinion. Maybe you've been spoiled . Seriously though, 3-4k hands is not that much, and there are still plenty of fishies on party. I'm in the UK, so I play early in the day (US time) and I can usually get position on a few muppets, although I do close alot of tables if I don't like what I see in the first couple of orbits.
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bode
Old 09-13-2006, 05:22 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 ive been in the same boat as you. since switching to ring ive played 5k at stars and 5k at party. i ended up down 2 stacks at stars, and am breaking completely even at party.

ive found the same problem that people just arent willing to play for stacks. although my experience has been due to quite a bit of -variance, the $25 nl tables just arent as fishy as everyone says they are.
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swiggidy
Old 09-13-2006, 05:23 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 We've probably also been spoiled by the early rounds of $5 & $10 Sngs
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andy-akb
Old 09-13-2006, 05:37 PM #5 (permalink)  
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The players are absolutely nuts at the ongame network, but it also brings huge swings. Ive had 10k hands at $100nl 5max there at ~11ptbb/100 and 10k hands of breakeven play without really changing my game at all.

Anyways though, there are some adjustments you need to make wherever you play not to the site per se, but to the table you are at [though you may be making these adjustments more at one site than another]. If your cbets are getting called too often, cbet less, etc. Its fairly intuitive how to adjust.

Really though 1k hands is like 1 session for a lot of people here and less for some of us as well, so you really arent going to have that great of an idea about a particular site based on that small sample.

Why are you only playing 1k hands at a site and then switching? At first I thought bonus whoring, but the paradise bonus isnt going to clear in 1k hands at any level. If you arent bonus whoring, you should be even at $25nl. Go find some good Ongame bonuses and play there until you are done all of them, thatll take a good amount of hands and it will let you earn a bonus while playing at a network that you are comfortable on.

Beyond that Id just say that you should play a little more than 1000 hands before you decide whether or not you like a site.
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martindcx1e
Old 09-13-2006, 06:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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it's pretty easy to go 1k hands and get little action on your monsters. keep playing man.
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djzcko
Old 09-13-2006, 07:10 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I primarily play Ongame (Pokerroom mainly) $50NL and have also played Stars, Party and Paradise. The main difference I see is that Ongame players play for stacks quite readily while other sites they are much more selective (read: usually only when they have the goods). It is not uncommon for LAGGY players to swing up or down 8 buyins in one couple hour session--right Cardsman? I play a more tight agressvive style therefore my variance is much smaller, between +/- 3 buyins 99% of the time. So, yes there are adjustments that need to be made when going from site to site...however, it is probably best to stick with one site for the long run so you don't have to keep adapting your game every time you move.
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bode
Old 09-13-2006, 07:16 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
We've probably also been spoiled by the early rounds of $5 & $10 Sngs
i feel that this has been the hardest transition to ring from sng's. i was playing the $16 turbos, very aggressively to say the least, and i was pushing marginal situations early to build a big stack. i played around 750 sngs before switching over, and i think this has more to do with the variance im seeing in ring more than anything
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martindcx1e
Old 09-13-2006, 07:21 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djzcko
It is not uncommon for LAGGY players to swing up or down 8 buyins in one couple hour session
are you sure about that? seems a bit extreme.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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cardsman1992
Old 09-13-2006, 07:31 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I have had days of plus 8 buyins, and days of 8 buyins down. The 8 buyins down is brought on by tilt, I feel.

I think 4-5 buyin swings are pretty common. I don't consider myself all that LAGGY, more STAGgy...20/10. It's nothing for me to be in for 2 buyins before I get rolling, though....

I think a lot of the Ongame players are pretty bad, though. They are either rocks or they spew chips.
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MiJ
Old 09-13-2006, 08:17 PM #11 (permalink)  
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keep playing..1k hands is truly nothing also keep a healthy buddy list , alot of the money you win is going to come from ATM machines who donk off all their money 2 u ..spot them and become very close friends with them....
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DarkenRahl
Old 09-13-2006, 09:04 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I recently signed up to party poker to get the bonus. I normally play tournaments but hate the speed at which blinds go up at party and the gamble fest it becomes.

I've been playing three $25 ring games at a time instead. I've been making a steady profit playing tight and mixing my game up enough to get people to pay out my monsters.

You need to quit a table if everyone is being way to tight and move on to easier pickings. Even at a tight table I just loosen up and double up when some grumpy tight player decides I'm bluffing.

Party isn't as fishy as forums and the like would have you believe but you can still make real easy money there.
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall,
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call.

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andy-akb
Old 09-13-2006, 11:15 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djzcko
It is not uncommon for LAGGY players to swing up or down 8 buyins in one couple hour session
I really dont think this is accurate at all. A played like Bld or Samo at the $2knl games at party could have a swing of 10 buyins but those games play so much more aggressively than the small stakes game. At mid stakes and below if you are regularly have an 8 buyin downswing Im pretty sure you are doing something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I have had days of plus 8 buyins, and days of 8 buyins down. The 8 buyins down is brought on by tilt, I feel.

I think 4-5 buyin swings are pretty common. I don't consider myself all that LAGGY, more STAGgy...20/10. It's nothing for me to be in for 2 buyins before I get rolling, though....

I think a lot of the Ongame players are pretty bad, though. They are either rocks or they spew chips.
Ive had 8 buyin upswings but never an 8 buyin downswing and only one 5 buyin downswing. Now, have I been fairly lucky? I guess, but I really dont think that a solid TAGG game [20/10 is taggy, Im around 21/16 and still consider myself tagg] should be regularly seeing a 4-5 buyin downswing. A good lagg probably wont either simply because they could so easily run over a table without much resistance and the resistance they face would be very transparent. However, I do think they would see a swing of that magnitude much more often than a tighter player, but it would sitll probably be fairly uncommon.

Now, I dont tilt that often and usually put in long sessions when Im losing, but after close to 100k hands at these levels I still stand by my statements.
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martindcx1e
Old 09-13-2006, 11:53 PM #14 (permalink)  
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right. 8 buy-in downswing usually means something is wrong
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TerryToma
Old 09-14-2006, 12:04 AM #15 (permalink)  
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i find paradise and party players are a bit more unpredictable, and will call down with worse hands..

players on pokernetwork are a bit more predictable/weak and its easier to fold to their raises. i prefer the pokernetwork style of play cuz its easier to know when im beat.
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andy-akb
Old 09-14-2006, 12:22 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
i find paradise and party players are a bit more unpredictable, and will call down with worse hands..

players on pokernetwork are a bit more predictable/weak and its easier to fold to their raises. i prefer the pokernetwork style of play cuz its easier to know when im beat.
Seriously? The ongame network has the biggest concentration of maniacs out of anywhere Ive played by far.

Paradise and party has more loose passive players IMO, and really almost nothing compares to ongame.
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swiggidy
Old 09-14-2006, 01:34 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 Well, thanks for everyone's feedback. I just got a reload offer, so I'm going back to OnGame for ~10k hands to win $100. I know it's not much, but it's better than nothing, and I've done better there. I think I can handle loosing to beats better than loosing $$ to min-raises. Besides, it will be incentive to accumulate something that resembles useful statistics.

And thanks for the concern, but I was never considering quitting, just wondering about my current progress.

EDIT: Additon...
Peole are saying party is loose, it seems insanley week/tight to me.
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MiJ
Old 09-14-2006, 01:38 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkenRahl
I recently signed up to party poker to get the bonus. I normally play tournaments but hate the speed at which blinds go up at party and the gamble fest it becomes.

I've been playing three $25 ring games at a time instead. I've been making a steady profit playing tight and mixing my game up enough to get people to pay out my monsters.

You need to quit a table if everyone is being way to tight and move on to easier pickings. Even at a tight table I just loosen up and double up when some grumpy tight player decides I'm bluffing.

Party isn't as fishy as forums and the like would have you believe but you can still make real easy money there.
never quit if the table is 2 tight....just pound the tight players until they start playing back at u ...tight games are just as easy to beat as Loose games IMO...

now if we were talking about limit , yea i would reccomend just getting up and leaving the table but not in NL
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cardsman1992
Old 09-14-2006, 11:22 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "andy-akb
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I have had days of plus 8 buyins, and days of 8 buyins down. The 8 buyins down is brought on by tilt, I feel.

I think 4-5 buyin swings are pretty common. I don't consider myself all that LAGGY, more STAGgy...20/10. It's nothing for me to be in for 2 buyins before I get rolling, though....

I think a lot of the Ongame players are pretty bad, though. They are either rocks or they spew chips.
Ive had 8 buyin upswings but never an 8 buyin downswing and only one 5 buyin downswing. Now, have I been fairly lucky? I guess, but I really dont think that a solid TAGG game [20/10 is taggy, Im around 21/16 and still consider myself tagg] should be regularly seeing a 4-5 buyin downswing. A good lagg probably wont either simply because they could so easily run over a table without much resistance and the resistance they face would be very transparent. However, I do think they would see a swing of that magnitude much more often than a tighter player, but it would sitll probably be fairly uncommon.

Now, I dont tilt that often and usually put in long sessions when Im losing, but after close to 100k hands at these levels I still stand by my statements.
I will be the first to admit that I have a propensity to get involved in some big pots with marginal holdings. I need to stop that. I am just saying that for every session I have that is 4 buyins up, I have one that is 4 buyins down. Or at least it seems this way. I do have MANY leaks to plug.
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andy-akb
Old 09-14-2006, 01:47 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I will be the first to admit that I have a propensity to get involved in some big pots with marginal holdings. I need to stop that. I am just saying that for every session I have that is 4 buyins up, I have one that is 4 buyins down. Or at least it seems this way. I do have MANY leaks to plug.
And that is what I was trying to say. If your game has a lot of leaks then this may be common but to say that a swing like this at these stakes in general is not uncommon is a little misleading. Now, Im not trying to say that my game has no leaks, becase there are plenty, so I hope it doesnt come off like that.
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