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POKEMONS
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02-22-2009, 12:55 AM
Post subject: 25NL BvB trouble
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Villain has been playing 21/13/1.6 over 70 hands. Haven't seen him get out of line, seems pretty passive.
Folding sucks here imo because he has so much that we beat right now, but I also think 3betting this flop lets us get this in really bad since based on his passiveness, I don't think he'll show up with a draw too often here. Of course, we could call OOP here but that also leaves us in many tough spots on the turn since there aren't very many good turn cards for our hand. So what is your flop play and why?
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($29.40)
UTG ($24.35)
MP ($25)
CO ($29.65)
Button ($24.65)
Hero (SB) ($34.05)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , A
4 folds, Hero bets $0.90, BB calls $0.75
Flop: ($2) 9 , 8, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BB raises $3.50
Total pot: $5
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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What is you table image? How often have you been stealing the blinds?
I'm probably gonna give him credit for a hand here and fold. I see no reason to tie up much of my stack with TPTK on this board.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Hmm... honestly, (I'm a moron so don't take me too seriously) I think this is between a fold or a raise.
I'm leaning towards fold just for the simple fact that, like you said, raising only allows you to get it in really bad here. He could have a lot of outs, or a pretty big made hand already, so I don't think our equity here is too good.
Pretty much any over card that isn't an Ace you aren't going to want to see, and theres a bunch of unders that are ugly too.
Just fold it imo. You haven't commited very much to this hand, no sense in taking it all the way.
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POKEMONS
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
What is you table image? How often have you been stealing the blinds?
I'm probably gonna give him credit for a hand here and fold. I see no reason to tie up much of my stack with TPTK on this board.
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I have been playing pretty standard at the table, probably a bit looser than average, running somewhere around 26/21, my button steal from SB is somewhere around 45% and I don't think it would be much different at this table.
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GatorJH
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02-22-2009, 04:15 AM
Post subject: Re: 25NL BvB trouble
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#5 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by POKEMONS
Folding sucks here imo because he has so much that we beat right now, but I also think 3betting this flop lets us get this in really bad since based on his passiveness, I don't think he'll show up with a draw too often here.
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These two comments make no sense to me. What hands would this type of player raise with here that we are beating? I also think a flush draw with two overs is absolutely in his range here.
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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youngunpoker
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 29
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I would also say fold because of how this villian has been playing, I could possibly see a flush draw with two overcards as previously stated and I also see a possible set as well. I can't see a higher pocket pair because he just called your pre-flop raise. I wouldn't get involved with just a pair and no realistic draw.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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If we're thinking he has a flush draw and 2 overs a lot of the time, maybe we can call and get agro on safe turn cards.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
If we're thinking he has a flush draw and 2 overs a lot of the time, maybe we can call and get agro on safe turn cards.
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But then we're turning our hand into a bluff and hoping that he'll fold what's likely nearly the bottom of his range when even that has very good equity. Plus if he calls the turn what's our river play on a blank?
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POKEMONS
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02-22-2009, 05:51 AM
Post subject: Re: 25NL BvB trouble
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
Quote:
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Originally Posted by POKEMONS
Folding sucks here imo because he has so much that we beat right now, but I also think 3betting this flop lets us get this in really bad since based on his passiveness, I don't think he'll show up with a draw too often here.
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These two comments make no sense to me. What hands would this type of player raise with here that we are beating? I also think a flush draw with two overs is absolutely in his range here. |
Yeah sorry I was kind of unclear here, I do think that semi-bluffs are in his range for raising the flop, but I think flush draw + overs is the absolute best possible scenario we can hope for if we end up getting it all in on the flop. I could also see this guy flatting a 3bet with a draw as bad as it sounds.
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POKEMONS
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Parasurama
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
If we're thinking he has a flush draw and 2 overs a lot of the time, maybe we can call and get agro on safe turn cards.
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But then we're turning our hand into a bluff and hoping that he'll fold what's likely nearly the bottom of his range when even that has very good equity. Plus if he calls the turn what's our river play on a blank? |
Just a quick question about this line because it definitely crossed my mind during the hand. If a blank comes on the turn do you think it is better to lead out or check-raise and play for stacks?
Para, when you say doing this will turn our hand into a bluff are you assuming for the most part that any made hands he's raising with on the flop have us beat?
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by POKEMONS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Parasurama
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
If we're thinking he has a flush draw and 2 overs a lot of the time, maybe we can call and get agro on safe turn cards.
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But then we're turning our hand into a bluff and hoping that he'll fold what's likely nearly the bottom of his range when even that has very good equity. Plus if he calls the turn what's our river play on a blank? |
Just a quick question about this line because it definitely crossed my mind during the hand. If a blank comes on the turn do you think it is better to lead out or check-raise and play for stacks?
Para, when you say doing this will turn our hand into a bluff are you assuming for the most part that any made hands he's raising with on the flop have us beat? |
Yes, but that isn't all. If we bet the blank on the turn, we want him to fold (hence the bluff). We're clearly way behind his raising range and marginal to weak against his calling range on the turn.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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If we call and lead the turn and he flats it, he almost always has a draw. If he raises and makes it more expensive, it's very unlikely he is drawing and thus has us beat.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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No, if we take this line we should be betting turn for an amount which makes him make a mistake calling with his draws, but that he'll probably call anyway. We dont want him to fold his draws, we want to get value from them and not lose too much to his nut hands. Probably if you take this line then b/f turn is the way to go. Few people semi-bluff raise two streets.
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