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KoRnholio
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07-20-2010, 09:52 PM
Post subject: 25NL 6max - cause I am a tourny donk
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Villain started off with a 20bb buyin, built it up with solid cards (and donks paying him off of course). Stats 36/11/43 ATS 3.7AF 45WTSD, 80% W$SD (50 hands)
His line makes no sense to me. I'm not too worried about being beat, J9/7x are possible, but unlikely. Is there any value in a raise, eg, do semi-aggro donks ever do this with JT/QJ and call a smallish all in on the end? I think he'd have raised KJ or even QJ preflop.
He didn't play tricky preflop with anything before, but I haven't seen him play past the turn in any meaningfully sized pot.
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($23.58)
SB ($22.04)
Hero (BB) ($51.27)
UTG ($12.95)
MP ($26.43)
CO ($21.59)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , J
4 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.50) 7, J , 9 (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises $1, SB calls $0.75
Turn: ($2.50) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $1.25, Hero raises $4.75, SB calls $3.50
River: ($12) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero just calls?
Total pot: $28
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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nice_aiau
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 260
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Raise PF? Which will make the hand much easier to play.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nice_aiau
Raise PF? Which will make the hand much easier to play.
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but thats not why you should raise pf
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I've been trying to implement some SPR theory (Ed Miller's book Professional NLH: Vol 1) into my cash game play. I know it doesn't apply as much in blind v blind situations, but it' something I've been trying out.
In short, SPRs (stack to pot ratio) near 13 are bad for top pair type hands. Aim for higher (20+) or lower (<7). If I raised to 75c preflop and he calls, that would make an SPR of 14. Even if I raise to $1.00, it's still 10.5. If I raise any higher I will just blow out the hands I want in. So a check seemed best, though maybe a min raise wouldn't be terrible- this is all according to SPR remember.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
I've been trying to implement some SPR theory (Ed Miller's book Professional NLH: Vol 1) into my cash game play. I know it doesn't apply as much in blind v blind situations, but it' something I've been trying out.
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There is no reason why SPR would apply less to a BvB situation.
Also, I feel when he talks about 14 being bad for TP he's referring to aggressive games where you're more likely be put to the test for your stack. Where villains aren't bluff raising the river all-in, or double barreling just because you check behind the flop, playing deeper isn't as scary.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Really easy raise preflop. He'll limp call a ton of worse hands and thus you'll have position in a raised pot with a hand that is doing well vs/dominating a lot of his range. If he folds then hey you pick up a bb and that certainl'y isn't terrible. It's just way better to build a pot IP vs a weak range, gain the initiatvie to take down a raised pot on the flop with your c bets etc etc than it is to check vs a player that's likely limp/calling too much when you have a hand that is just going to have A high in a tiny pot with no initiative too often.
As played, post flop I think Jx is a sizable part of his range and if he's b/c flop and turn with it then betting this amount on the river, there's no way he's folding hands like QJ KJ JT etc if you raise, just stick the rest in.
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nice_aiau
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Really easy raise preflop. He'll limp call a ton of worse hands and thus you'll have position in a raised pot with a hand that is doing well vs/dominating a lot of his range. If he folds then hey you pick up a bb and that certainl'y isn't terrible. It's just way better to build a pot IP vs a weak range, gain the initiatvie to take down a raised pot on the flop with your c bets etc etc than it is to check vs a player that's likely limp/calling too much when you have a hand that is just going to have A high in a tiny pot with no initiative too often.
As played, post flop I think Jx is a sizable part of his range and if he's b/c flop and turn with it then betting this amount on the river, there's no way he's folding hands like QJ KJ JT etc if you raise, just stick the rest in.
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This.
And with reference to the SPR theories, I remember reading that chapter and it had to be one of my biggest A-ha moments. but avoiding mistakes with a SPR of like 10-15 is alot easier to do with position on your side.
Just raise this PF 
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I'll definitely save the SPR for other spots/higher stakes, thanks.
FWIW I just called, villain showed 8s 5s
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 993
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Or you could just ignore the use of SPR all together as it's not really worth paying attention to...
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 993
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By that I mean don't be like omg if I raise to 5x the spr will be 19 but if I raise to 4x the spr will be 24, there's a lot more important things to focus on.
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nice_aiau
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet
Or you could just ignore the use of SPR all together as it's not really worth paying attention to...
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I disagree with this statement. Utilising SPR in preflop bet sizing can make our postflop commiting decisions much easier. But yes I feel its been applied incorrectly in this situation.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nice_aiau
I disagree with this statement. Utilising SPR in preflop bet sizing can make our postflop commiting decisions much easier. But yes I feel its been applied incorrectly in this situation.
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SPR is the 564,278th most important thing for you guys to think about. A way better and more simple question is: "How much should I be betting/raising here in order to allow me to get the money in by a certain street?" and "How much do I need to raise/bet here to avoid leaving awkard overbet sizing?" - basically a different form of the same question.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nice_aiau
I disagree with this statement. Utilising SPR in preflop bet sizing can make our postflop commiting decisions much easier. But yes I feel its been applied incorrectly in this situation.
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aren't spr guidelines just a list of numbers made so that you don't have to think
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