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25NL : 4bet pot snap call flop ?

  
 
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Evilpopcorn
Old 06-15-2009, 05:10 PM     Post subject: 25NL : 4bet pot snap call flop ? #1 (permalink)  
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Evilpopcorn
Villian Stats : (VP$IP/PFR [Street Aggression] 3-bet%)

52/31 [5 4 2] 11% over 74

My Thoughts And Questions

Villian seem like a bit of a maniac.

Decided to flat the 4bet leaving pretty much a pot bet left behind and give him a chance to bluff of his remaining stack with his bluffing range. Hating life when the baord goes A/K high but against this guy i think i prob take a check/stack off line vs him even then.

When he jams flop his range is any hand with an Ah/Kh, the flopped straight, combinations with a big heart and a straight draw, and i guess he might do this with a set also but imo this sort of player will get trappy with a set even on this type of board. He is never doing this with a flopped flush either.

Ofcourse we are sititng a little deeper than normal at 120bbs just too make this a little tricker, although i do think the 4bet pre with the SPR makes this preeety much effectively the same thing as 100bb stacks in a 3bet pot.

Hands that i have beat but have better equity than me are AK with a heart and 9T and 96 (both with a heart). The guy is a maniac but i think i can discount those two hands mostly after i 3bet him preflop and he 4bet me.

Hands that i lurv to see are a naked flush and straight draws with at most one over card.

Getting 1.7 to 1 on my call and thus needing 37% equity i think i have to call.

Actually thinking through the hand now in this post needing 37% this is pretty much a no brainer call correct? (PS i did snap off )

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

UTG: $63.20
MP: $27.00
CO: $46.05
Hero (BTN): $29.90
SB: $21.60
BB: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q Q
UTG raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 2 folds, UTG raises to $7.75, Hero calls $5.50

Flop: ($15.85) 7 8 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $55.45 all in, Hero?
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BlueBull
Old 06-15-2009, 05:35 PM #2 (permalink)  

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BlueBull
Disclaimer: This post is a bit of a generalisation based on my 25NL experience but the point is I wana see this guy 4 bet some before I change this "general read".

Call me a nit, call me whatever.... but my general read on 25NL is that quite simply even when the maniac 4 bets he has AA,KK or very rarely AK (usually suited). I think you putting your money in here crushed or flipping.

I did an exercise in HEM on my last 35000 hand database a few days ago and I was down quite significantly where I have taken QQ to showdown in 4 bet pots (probably cus I play bad but of the 14 odd spots I was behind in 10 or 11 I think preflop). Now I plan on snap dumping jacks to 4 bets and I want a good reason to proceed with queens. A guy playing 50/30 may seem like a reasonably good reason but I think I would like to have seen him 4 bet some previously before I get it in here with him. You really need a read on villain imo thats more than just "he is a maniac" because not even the maniacs are 4 betting light much here....

I think the range you giving hiving him is giving him way to much credit for 4 betting somewhat light. Id be surprised if he ever flips over anything except AA/KK/AK with a heart or on the very odd occassion the other Quens and even more rarely Jacks. I want real evidence to the contrary before giving any 25NL villain a wider range than that.
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bigspenda73
Old 06-15-2009, 06:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 jam PF, he's a 53/31 for god's sake

against run of the mill TAGG's I'd flat PF the first time around but 3betting and getting it in vs. this monkey is definitely +EV.
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d0zer
Old 06-15-2009, 07:12 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBull
Call me a nit, call me whatever.... but my general read on 25NL is that quite simply even when the maniac 4 bets he has AA,KK or very rarely AK (usually suited).
sorry you've run into the toppest of maniac's ranges but yer missing value making generalizations like this.
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BlueBull
Old 06-15-2009, 07:48 PM #5 (permalink)  

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Posts: 72
BlueBull
Quote:
sorry you've run into the toppest of maniac's ranges but yer missing value making generalizations like this.
I hear you! But get yourself a nice big 25nl database and i gaurantee for every 4 bet that isnt AA/KK/AK you will find at least five that are.

I agree that this villain looks special but I have made the mistake of assuming these villains 4 bet ranges are different enough times that I now want to see it before I believe it.

I can however see how folding queens to this guy seems ridiculous so dont flame me to hard!
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