25nl - 3 bet pot OOP

Bet

I am thinking you should fold this pre on the flop I would prob cbet to try to take it down and fold to any raise.

don't fold pre.

bet.

+3 to bet.

i say bet as well. but are we bet/folding? maybe bet/calling if he plays well IP?

we are most certainly b/fing as his equity crushes ours once he raises.

i like preflop. bet/fold flop seems the best of our options now.

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

Originally Posted by kickass

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

Originally Posted by rpm

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

Wat.

Originally Posted by kickass

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

If the BB is squeezing too light, ATs should be a pretty great hand to shove over.

Originally Posted by Fnord

If the BB is squeezing too light, ATs should be a pretty great hand to shove over.

step ahead of me.

Originally Posted by rpm

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

I assume you have a reason for thinking this, would you mind explaining it? do you have a calling range in this spot?

Thanks for the comments.

Same hand with more info ...

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players

BTN: $27.64
Hero (SB): $33.32
BB: $12.50
UTG: $26.57
MP: $27.49
CO: $23.90

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has T A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, BTN calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.75, 2 players) T J 4
Hero bets $3.29, BTN calls $3.29

Turn: ($12.33, 2 players) 4
Hero ??????

So I did bet ... What's the plan now?

bet.

I'd check/fold.

Why 3-bet? Seems to me that we're wasting a hand that has perfectly good equity that we can flat profitably.

Originally Posted by kickass

I assume you have a reason for thinking this, would you mind explaining it? do you have a calling range in this spot?

i'm probably wrong. i haven't played poker for a while (and no zoom) and sucked at it when i did. what i was trying to say was that the profitability of this hand if used in our flat-calling range depends on how good we are postflop. for example an absolutely beginner would likely be losing tons flatting this OOP to a steal with no clue about reverse implied odds, no idea about how to extract thin value, no idea how to play back vs a weak Cbet range etc etc. whereas an excellent player could profitably flat-call a far wider range to play OOP here because of their skill level. for me, i doubt i would be able to play this hand profitably if i flat-call in this spot. because i just don't think i have enough postflop skill for it to be +EV. hence i prefer 3betting it (though this is probably the top of my 3-bet "bluff" range. ie it's on the borderline). you may well be able to play this hand profitably, i don't know.

Originally Posted by baudib

Why 3-bet? Seems to me that we're wasting a hand that has perfectly good equity that we can flat profitably.

What makes us the most money and do we want to have a flat range from the SB vs a CO/BN open?

Bet fucking fold.

Originally Posted by Fnord

What makes us the most money and do we want to have a flat range from the SB vs a CO/BN open?

This is a great point of course. If you want to argue that we shouldn't have a flatting range in this spot, I'm totally open to that.

However, my feeling is in this specific spot is that we have a pretty tight player, but he's in LP so his range is presumably a bit wider. My default assumption about a NL25 6M nit is that he probably sucks postflop, very likely isn't capable of double-/triple-barreling with air/A-high/underpairs.

By flatting we keep his range as wide as possible, and we have perfectly fine equity vs. that range with a hand that can outflop him, cooler a good chunk of his range or flop enough equity to semibluff him off a better hand once in a while. Being OOP definitely hurts but if given the choice, I'd rather take a flop with him and his KT/QT/A9s hands instead of folding them out and playing a bigger pot vs. TT+/AJ+.