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25NL | 3 sweet shoves, or 3 donk spews?

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FriskyPirate

01-31-2009, 10:57 PM Post subject: 25NL | 3 sweet shoves, or 3 donk spews?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Palm Springs

Posts: 92

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results at very bottom in white

Hand No.1
In this hand the villain was in the BB and he was running like 60/11 and his 3bet was getting kind of high. I had only been at the table a short time. I don't often limp big, but occassionally I toss it in for deception and thought villain would fire back at my limp...which he did. Is this shove reasonable?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG pdub42 ($84.15)
UTG+1 504C ($25.00)
MP1 Minigun134 ($25.95)
MP2 Mduck ($21.95)
MP3 bbuyloewen ($5.45)
CO Beanti ($30.35)
BTN Hero ($25.00)
SB thequdans ($30.00)
BB sieberb ($10.65)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 9 players) Hero is BTN

6 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, sieberb raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.60, sieberb raises to $5.25, Hero raises to $15.70, sieberb goes all-in $5.40

Flop:

($26.45, 2 players)

Turn:

($26.45, 2 players)

River:

($26.45, 2 players)

Hand No.2
I completed the small blind with ATs and eventually hit the nut flush on the river. Villain raises and I want to shove here...is this reasonable? I figure he has a range of AJ KJ QJ. I guess he could have J2 but that would be rare to open with that hand. It does not feel like he has 33 77. Am I being too aggressive shoving or most of the time am I good?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Genius4832 ($41.55)
UTG+1 mpeGroCkz ($5.35)
MP1 fibobg ($17.05)
MP2 thebidon ($48.35)
MP3 Zuljin79 ($26.25)
CO SharingaaN ($22.75)
BTN slats60 ($13.30)
SB Hero ($29.70)
BB Ihavetheaces ($4.70)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 9 players) Hero is SB

2 folds, fibobg raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Zuljin79 calls $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.65, 1 fold

Flop:

($2.50, 3 players)
Hero checks, fibobg bets $0.50, Zuljin79 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Turn:

($3.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, fibobg checks

River:

($3.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, fibobg raises to $9.75, $8.25 to Hero ($26.95)?

Hand No.3
This was an unusual hand. I decided to join the limp parade since I already had position on the button. On the Flop, if I call, there are four of us in the hand and most of them were short stacked...I thought that one of them probably has the 4, but they can't all have a 4 and my Q with top kicker probably beats two of the three. I decided to shove since no one left in the hand had a huge stack...figuring I was ahead of all but one of them and would win a portion of the pot. Spew? Reasonable?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG joaloe ($11.90)
UTG+1 ShadowInq ($20.40)
MP1 Minigun134 ($32.70)
MP2 dangerodave ($28.20)
CO mpeter56 ($10.95)
BTN Hero ($37.90)
SB thequdans ($28.40)
BB kruemelbaby ($5.20)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is BTN

joaloe calls $0.25, 2 folds, dangerodave calls $0.25, mpeter56 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, kruemelbaby raises to $1, joaloe calls $0.75, dangerodave folds, mpeter56 calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Flop:

($4.35, 4 players)
kruemelbaby bets $2, joaloe calls $2, mpeter56 calls $2, $2 to Hero ($36.90)?

Secret Results of all three in white:
In hand no.1, villain had AA in the hole
In hand no.2, villain flopped quad jacks
In hand no.3 Krue had AA and
joa had KQ and hit a K on river.

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02-01-2009, 12:06 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

why do you care about his 3b stats when he 4b you?
in hand 2 I'd call river as played because he can have a smaller flush
hand 3 is ...

here I'll link you:
http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/a...erlimping.html

loonychune

02-01-2009, 01:04 AM Post subject: noob decides to comment

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 145

What's kruemelbaby like? I'm wondering what his stats are.

He's OOP after the flop and is only betting 4bb into 11,219 limpers.

To me this just looks like one of those min-raises you see players make when they've got ATo and the board comes JTx (I realise we're talking PF here but i'm tryna illustrate the kind of mentality you sometimes see) - it's there but not really quite there. Wouldn't be the first time a player builds the pot a little bit without pushing many players out and shows AA though.

poker_pup

02-01-2009, 02:16 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 130

Hand one looks good. Getting it all in pre with pocket Q should be good against that character.

Hand two looks good. It looks as if he was drawing to a flush and hit it on the river.

Hand three: beats me. No telling what everyone else might be playing preflop. TPTK isn't that good of a hand with a pair on the board.

Knytestorme

02-01-2009, 02:46 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Australia

Posts: 562

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

in hand 2 I'd call river as played because he can have a smaller flush

Why would we call the river in hand 2 with the nut flush? Only hand that possibly could be worried about is J7s and given his position with the open I don't think that's an issue. with the way the hand played out and villains check on the turn before a 6x raise on the river when the flush gets there essentially defines his hand for us

We can't just call this river and the only reasonable raise here is a shove so think it's fine.

bigspenda73

02-01-2009, 03:30 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

PF is bad in hand 2

he obv. has a boat or better when he jams the river, it's an annoying fold

killerkebab

02-01-2009, 10:18 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2008

Posts: 149

I don't like the open limp on BTN at all. When you limp re-raise your strength is all but obvious, what do you think he's playing back at you with? Ironically enough this is probably something I happily shove preflop if I'd raised on the button and he'd played back at me then, since an open on the button doesn't inspire nearly as much strength as an open limp-raise.

In hand 2, if I'm in your place I probably call the bet and later hate myself. That said, the only hands that makes sense for villain to have here is 77 and JJ which obviously has us totally crushed, unless you think he's raising small PPs in early position as well in which case 22 and 33 join the party (remember he doesn't need J2/etc to make a boat, pocket pairs do it better and he's a lot more likely to have those since he raised preflop and cbet small

). He's not raising you like this with KJ/AJ unless he knows he has the flush beaten, since the way you played the hand implies the flush is just about the only thing you would be betting here. He wants all the money to go in now that you appear to have a playable second best hand to his boat or (heaven forbid) quads.

Let's look at hand three. Of course they can't all have a four, and if they're calling with a queen you obviously have the best one of the lot (bar Q4, of course

). However, our original bettor (super weak preflop raiser - I'd make a note on this guy with what he had if you know it) has been called by two people before the action even reaches you. There are no draws on this board, and at this point you have to assume at least one of your opponents is calling or even overcalling with a four since there's pretty much nothing else that makes sense here. If we look at the preflop action it is difficult to imagine a more passively played pot by all parties, which should set more alarm bells ringing when everybody is suddenly going for it

All in all a main theme I've noticed here is very passive play preflop which (imo) you need to change. The open limp on the button in hand 1 is bad I think, we should just raise and hope our opponent thinks we're stealing on the button (I hope your attempt to steal is high). In hand 2 you're not completing the blind, you're calling a raise and a caller which is a bit marginal with a hand like ATs. I think we can fold this without hesitation. As for hand 3, I can't imagine a world where I don't raise AQs where there are limpers there already. That way we can cbet a bunch of flops and hopefully not get into situations where we're in a multiway pot with TPTK with absolutely no idea where we are.

Knytestorme

02-01-2009, 11:08 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Australia

Posts: 562

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

PF is bad in hand 2

he obv. has a boat or better when he jams the river, it's an annoying fold

You really put him on a boat here Spenda?

I can't see villain raising 22 or 33 with 6 people still to act behind at FR...77 is possible I guess or JJ (again, can't see him raising J7 from MP1).

Aren't we playing a bit weak if we see him having 1 of 2 hands that beat us that he could reasonably hold?

bigspenda73

02-01-2009, 04:33 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

yea but it's 25nl FR, so chances are he's not running some elaborate bluff or shoving really thin for value.

02-01-2009, 06:08 PM

#10 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knytestorme

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

in hand 2 I'd call river as played because he can have a smaller flush

he can has 22, 33, 77, JJ
but it's a call because people shovel flushes in NL25

Knytestorme

02-01-2009, 11:40 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Australia

Posts: 562

Just reread the hand and noticed one thing I missed previously.....his flop bet size. It is such a "lets keep them in" size that the river over-raise does raise flags.

You guys both make good points and would ammend my position to being ambivalent about the hand on the river and calling just because so few hands beat us and he could turn up here with a K flush enough times to make it EV at this level but I wouldn't really be surprised to see we're beat so shoving over the top would be the worst play of the 3 options.

Actually, if we're thinking of folding to a raise here wouldn't a better play be c/c since the pot is still reasonably small and we could get away from a massive overbet from a hand that beats us?

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25NL | 3 sweet shoves, or 3 donk spews?

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