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Chopper
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04-25-2007, 05:56 PM
Post subject: 22 blows
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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this could be for either cash or tourneys, imo. please tell me i'm wrong.
22 has to be one of the worst possbile hands you can play with aggression. you have to be praying you dont get called, if you raised. any pair has you whooped, and 73o has a coin flip with you.
i dont have any "bad beats" to make me feel like this. i just, generally, think ducks suck. however, if you call and "set up," you are sitting pretty quite often, but also run into "set-over-set" more often than any other pp, obviously.
do you all agree? or can someone play devil's advocate?
how do you guys usually play 22? and do you play cash or tourneys?
details, please.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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I love playing deuces. If the flop doesn't help and someone bets, it's an easy fold. But if the flop misses you and everyone else, you can kill. When a 2 falls on the turn or river, you can make a big bet and get called because they think you're trying to steal ("that deuce couldn't have helped you"). They reraise and you can call or reraise with some confidence. I usually win sizeable pots when the third deuce hits.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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22 is only good for sets. I guess that's pretty obvious though.
Sets makem the big bucks v. average players; when "seasoned donks" look at a flop, the idea of a pocket pair is the last thing to come to mind (which makes them vulnearble to sets/ overpairs.
Because of that, 22's generally good to see a flop (given he's got enough chips left to make your gamble / chase worthwhile).
One thing I hardly understand is when people push allin with 22. (because a pocket pair's a slight "favorite" v. overs. *note, 22 is dog to suited / connecting overs, lmao*) Fold equity? If that's the reason, why not push any two?
22's a good push if you have 5 blinds, or are otherwise either eating **** in terms of chip count. Otherwise, nah. It's a drawing / implied odds hand all the way. As such, only play it during deep-stack, post-flop heavy poker. Cash / early (speculative) stage of tourney, prob. never folding 22 unless someone shoots their load with a *monster* raise. (and even then, if they have enough...). Late tourney, I'm dumping this one along with 89suited, etc. Late tourney = paint time.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
If that's the reason, why not push any two?
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People who push deuces push any two. But the biggest reason you could give is because 22 doesn't have to make a pair to win when overs call.
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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I love DUCKS! But, no set, no bet.
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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so are we alwasy raising (speaking of 6max) or do we limp with a few hands other than just 22-55 in ep and hands like Axs or QTs etc and do we limp reraise...
just some ideas
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
so are we alwasy raising (speaking of 6max) or do we limp with a few hands other than just 22-55 in ep and hands like Axs or QTs etc and do we limp reraise...
just some ideas
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i cant speak for you guys playing over 50 NL, but for me, i limp a lot of stuff...even from ep. i play at tables that "allow" me to do this and still profit nicely. sc's (rarely), QT-KJ, AXs+...stuff i want to see a flop with, but may still call a standard raise with. again, this doesnt get me hammered because these idiots are passive enough post flop, that i still get into these pots cheaply preflop. and they call off enough that i shouldnt, imo, raise pf because of the infrequency that i hit something strong enough to bet out.
i dont, however, limp or call, things like AJo+, AXo from a blind or CO+, KTo. these are hands i can bust up a bit, and "thin a field." again, this appears like a donkey move when forced to showdown, and tends to loosen up the regulars against me (thinking i am a donkey). the fish dont even notice because they are doing dumber things, but the TAGs notice, and call me off a bit more, imo.
as for limp/RRing, i HATE that move. but i will rarely use it when the maniacs have position on me, and i can count on getting my limp raised. then, i use it with AK, QQ+, and maybe a little more stuff i dont mind going to stacks with the maniac with.
but, again, i play lower stakes. when i was up higher, i NEVER did any of this shit. play 67s from UTG, and flat call a raise...wow. i would get crushed like 80% of the time with it.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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bantam222
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 208
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in cash games you aren't playing them to win a pot with a pair of twos. You are hoping to flop a set for cheap, and get paid.
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Lithium
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
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IMHO, pocket ducks is a great hand when you can isolate against a single opponent.
Case in point, last night playing a $65 buyin tournament, I end up with pocket ducks. The table is playing particularly tight (considering the cash games I normally play [I only play live games, no online]), so I raise to 4xBB. I only get one caller (all the blinds fold to the raise), who turns over AQs. While a coin flip, I am still ahead, and because the flop helps no one, I pull it down.
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OarChambo
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bowling Green, OHIO
Posts: 22
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I play 22 similar to 33, 44, and 55. I like to mix it up, limping and raising; I'll call a raise in position. The whole idea is to get to the flop, I do not want to invest too much money into the hand before the flop with a small pp but I don't want my opponent to know I have a small pp [see, mixing it up comment from earlier].
Why? As others have said, it's easy to get away from. If I miss, I rarely bet at the pot unless I have received some information that my opponent does not have a hand yet. If I hit, I [once again] mix up my play; situational dependent. I have found small pp's to be very profitable as long as it is well disguised from your opponent.
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"I don't gamble, I invest."
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bantam222
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 208
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lithium
IMHO, pocket ducks is a great hand when you can isolate against a single opponent.
Case in point, last night playing a $65 buyin tournament, I end up with pocket ducks. The table is playing particularly tight (considering the cash games I normally play [I only play live games, no online]), so I raise to 4xBB. I only get one caller (all the blinds fold to the raise), who turns over AQs. While a coin flip, I am still ahead, and because the flop helps no one, I pull it down.
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Playing 4BB deap in a MMT is very different than playing 100BB+ deap in a cash game.
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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well its a PP and thats always good
tourney
greaet ush hand for short stack (u even have A2s dominated like hell)
cash:
stack someone with set
take blinds on button
u can float against AK or something too
from my exp, all PP's are good but these small are even better headsup with position or obviously in multiway pots.
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Geanosssss
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 403
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Their quite easy to play.
Fold EP (especially at aggro table with lots of pre-flop raises)
Try and get in cheap, limping in LP etc.
Just generally look for spots where you can get in cheap and see a cheap flop.
The odds of you flopping a set are about 9-1, always keep that in mind when considering what to do pre-flop and pondering pot odds.
And if we dont hit are set were not putting anymore money in.
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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Whenever I play 22, overcards flop. That's why I hate 22.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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22 - for sets, also can be played in position HU for a good winrate.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Deuces are great. Learn how to play poker.
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