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Thee One
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08-03-2006, 06:28 PM
Post subject: 2 pair for stacks?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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I'm finding it quite difficult to get away from 2pair and losing stacks with it to sets and straights, but mostly sets. How do you tell when your 2pair is no good vs. someone overplaying TPTK?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Chicken Entrails and Tea Leaves.
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Post HH for dissection.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Except that it doesn't.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Chicken Entrails and Tea Leaves.
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That's what I've been using, apparently my stock isn't too fresh right now.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aceofone
Post HH for dissection.
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Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter
Table Table 109835 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the Villan (Button)
Total number of players : 6
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with  
UTG calls, Hero calls, Villan raises to $3, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.
Flop:    ($9.75, 3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Villan bets $6, UTG folds, Hero raises to $17, Villan calls.
Turn:  ($43.75, 2 players)
Hero raises all-in $38.25, Villan calls all-in $32.7.
Uncalled bets: $5.55 returned to Hero.
River:  ($109.15, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $109.15)
Results:
Final pot: $109.15
Hero shows :Ad: two pairs, aces and nines.
Villan shows ???
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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Very interesting HH. Your line screams set as much as a line ever could (limp preflop, call raise, c/r on uncoordinated flop). There are only three/four hands that villian could possibly have that justify his call. (This assumes that you haven't been playing hyper aggressively recently, nor has he.) AA/99/AKs/AQs (possibly a 44 who is willing to get stacked in a set over set). Given the way the hand played out the only hand he could have that would justify a call (but not push) both flop and turn is ATs (where s = spades).
I don't think I could fold Axs (spades) on the flop even to an obvious set, but perhaps I should. I think you played it fine.
The problem with 2 pair is any lead is tenuous and so many cards become scare cards.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Except that it doesn't. |
i mean that if you find yourself in a spot where you wouldn't think TPTK to be good, your bottom 2 aint good either.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Except that it doesn't. |
i mean that if you find yourself in a spot where you wouldn't think TPTK to be good, your bottom 2 aint good either. |
Bottom 2 > Over-pair > TPTK
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Except that it doesn't. |
i mean that if you find yourself in a spot where you wouldn't think TPTK to be good, your bottom 2 aint good either. |
Bottom 2 > Over-pair > TPTK |
ah yes of course....the overpair. well i stand corrected
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by yorib
Very interesting HH. Your line screams set as much as a line ever could (limp preflop, call raise, c/r on uncoordinated flop). There are only three/four hands that villian could possibly have that justify his call. (This assumes that you haven't been playing hyper aggressively recently, nor has he.) AA/99/AKs/AQs (possibly a 44 who is willing to get stacked in a set over set). Given the way the hand played out the only hand he could have that would justify a call (but not push) both flop and turn is ATs (where s = spades).
I don't think I could fold Axs (spades) on the flop even to an obvious set, but perhaps I should. I think you played it fine.
The problem with 2 pair is any lead is tenuous and so many cards become scare cards.
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I put him on air pre-flop...thought he was pulling a button raise. So I called the re-raise hoping to take the pot away on the flop. Flop was good for me, villan made what looked to be a standard C-bet to pull the pot, and I put him to the test with the pot sized re-raise. His call made me think he had AK or was making a bad call with a flush draw, so I pushed the turn hoping he couldn't get away from either one. Also at that time the pot was more than big enough for me to be happy with and I wouldn't have minded a fold either.
Turns out I was wrong:
Villan shows   for three of a kind, nines.
That's the last thing I expected given that I was looking at two 9's already.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
remember that bottom 2 plays alot like TPTK
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Except that it doesn't. |
i mean that if you find yourself in a spot where you wouldn't think TPTK to be good, your bottom 2 aint good either. |
What about your top 2?
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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Quote:
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Bottom 2 > Over-pair > TPTK
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...plus 4 outs against straights and flushes, which means a lot in deep stack NLHE.
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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