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Schya
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03-11-2009, 04:12 AM
Post subject: 12k hands not so good
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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you're not positionally aware. open more hands in the button/CO
also most people will tell you not to open limp. coming in for a raise is a better choice
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Kbryce23
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 152
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which seat is the cutoff? I dont really understand these stats, why does position 6 only have 470 hands and the button has 1500.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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I can't figure out how to delete posts so ignore this one!
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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cutoff is 1 away from the button. Open up your game when in position more. Also I would do a little less flat calling preflop, and more raising.
Also what is your aggressive factor like?
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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I think CO is at seat 1?
I agree with AFchung. But yeah, I'm not at 12k yet, but at 700 hands, I'm not looking too good either schya...
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Kbryce23
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 152
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xpaand
CO is the seat to the right of the button making it the second best position. Don't worry, I didn't understand these stats at first either. Download a poker tracker and play around with it first.
I agree with AFchung. But yeah, I'm not at 12k yet, but at 700 hands, I'm not looking too good either schya... |
I mean which number on his stats is the cutoff. is it 12345 or 6. I will stick with holdem manager seems less confusing.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Yeah that's why I tried to delete my comment cause I saw you post from Hold'em Manager and I knew right away I misunderstood you. But I think it's position 1. And from what I hear, PT3 is the best (I use Poker Office cause my friend gave me his unused account).
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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heres an an old example of my stats that I posted .
Obviously this is at six max ,but shows the positional awareness better and I've generally been playing LAGGY. I'm playing 40% of hands from the button and half that number from the early positions.SB looks bad but then you have to factor in the attempts to steal at over 50% which comes down to trying to find a seat with passive nit who has position on me.
The numbers are the number of seats away from the button you are so 1 is 1 seat before the button and therefore the cutoff.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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You should be raising most of the hands that you limp with.
Start stealing blinds, and open up according to position.
Start raising all broadways and all pairs from MP3-Button.
On the button when folded to, you can profitably open raise almost any 2 cards.
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You raise less hands on the button than you do under the gun. You're also calling half of the time you enter a pot. Do you know what TAG refers to? Tight and aggressive. You're forgetting the aggressive part.
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Ok so raise more hands from later positions and raise instead of limping.
Im pretty aggressive once i flop a hand i think is the nuts. Do alot of raising UTG being that i see ALOT of good hand there.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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wow that's the definition of being positionally unaware
hey! at least you won money!
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loonychune
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 145
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Only 7k hands but an example of how our stats ought to truncate as our position worsens.
Quote:
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why does position 6 only have 470 hands and the button has 1500
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I don't think you should be too worried about this, but it's basically just because when a person leaves the table and it becomes 8-handed, position 6 no longer exists... same goes for position 5 and 7-handed tables etc.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
Im pretty aggressive once i flop a hand i think is the nuts.
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What's the c-bet %?
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Im at work atm so i can't check. So playing in position i understand this. What am i to do when i get very good starting hands OOP?? I know i play alot of hand OOP some are rather questionable but hey thats why im posting so i can get feedback and correct my mistakes, 
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WhiteRabbito
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8
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Very good starting hands out of position, still raise. If your table is playing maniacally - every hand being raised preflop - maybe go for a limp raise UTG or UTG+1, you should really have a monster for this though, QQ+, AK. The problem you seem to be having is limping too much without premium hands and without premium position. This is a recipe for chip spewing. The only time you should be playing things like marginal suited connectors or weak aces etc. is when you have great position and can bet to take down unwanted pots when its checked to you. Playing these hands out of position, you're relying on actually hitting a monster flop, which is unlikely, and when you DO hit a monster flop, you won't be in late position to make the most of your big hand.
Position is king.
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
Im at work atm so i can't check. So playing in position i understand this. What am i to do when i get very good starting hands OOP?? I know i play alot of hand OOP some are rather questionable but hey thats why im posting so i can get feedback and correct my mistakes, |
Define what you call "Very good hands OOP?" I think you will be surprised by your definition and that of the regs.
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it  |
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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OOP i raise with AKo AKs AA KK QQ sometimes JJ and occasionally TT
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
Im pretty aggressive once i flop a hand i think is the nuts.
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That's not what aggression refers to.
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
OOP i raise with AKo AKs AA KK QQ sometimes JJ and occasionally TT
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ok so thats accounted for 3.5% of the hands .what are the other 5% that you've been raising? and the other 15% that you are limping OOP
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
OOP i raise with AKo AKs AA KK QQ sometimes JJ and occasionally TT
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Not to be harsh but you have to be honest to get the best advise on here. You are obviously playing more than just those. Also what do you consider "OOP?"
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it |
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Don't play anymore until you have read this at least twice. Implement the starting hands strategy and that $7 would be $40.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...op-t39184.html
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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It's difficult to repond to everything that needs adressing in your OP, without me spendinig a long time/writing a massive post. Renton's guide is a bit dated now.
I woudl suggest start using these opening ranges, I mean if no-one has bet then raise these hands in these positions. Add all the hands in postions above the position you are playing from. For expample in UTG+1, play the hands I state in UTG+1 + UTG.
UTG: 55+,AQs+,,AQo+
UTG+1: 44,AJs,KQs
MP1: 33,AJo, KQo
MP2: 22,ATs,KJs-KTs,QTs+,JTs
HJ: A9s-A8s,ATo,KJo-KTo,QTo+,JTo
CO: A7s-A2s,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s
BU: K9s-K2s,J9s,T8s,97s,86s,75s,64s, A9o-A2o
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muzzard
It's difficult to repond to everything that needs adressing in your OP, without me spendinig a long time/writing a massive post. Renton's guide is a bit dated now.
I woudl suggest start using these opening ranges, I mean if no-one has bet then raise these hands in these positions. Add all the hands in postions above the position you are playing from. For expample in UTG+1, play the hands I state in UTG+1 + UTG.
UTG: 55+,AQs+,,AQo+
UTG+1: 44,AJs,KQs
MP1: 33,AJo, KQo
MP2: 22,ATs,KJs-KTs,QTs+,JTs
HJ: A9s-A8s,ATo,KJo-KTo,QTo+,JTo
CO: A7s-A2s,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s
BU: K9s-K2s,J9s,T8s,97s,86s,75s,64s, A9o-A2o
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I would suggest tightening up even more as a new player... but not too much.. you gotta learn to play postflop too.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muzzard
It's difficult to repond to everything that needs adressing in your OP, without me spendinig a long time/writing a massive post. Renton's guide is a bit dated now.
I woudl suggest start using these opening ranges, I mean if no-one has bet then raise these hands in these positions. Add all the hands in postions above the position you are playing from. For expample in UTG+1, play the hands I state in UTG+1 + UTG.
UTG: 55+,AQs+,,AQo+
UTG+1: 44,AJs,KQs
MP1: 33,AJo, KQo
MP2: 22,ATs,KJs-KTs,QTs+,JTs
HJ: A9s-A8s,ATo,KJo-KTo,QTo+,JTo
CO: A7s-A2s,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s
BU: K9s-K2s,J9s,T8s,97s,86s,75s,64s, A9o-A2o
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I would suggest tightening up even more as a new player. |
to be fair this only gives you a pfr of 12, if it folded to you in every spot. So I'd say, in reality it probably will be liek 8-10 PFR which is nitty.
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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any calling in EP?? with PP or such??? or is that like a snap fold?
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
any calling in EP?? with PP or such??? or is that like a snap fold?
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I suppose in micro limits, it may be fairly profitable to open limp. I'd rather you open all these for a raise or fold the bottom end. It's less exploitable, but I suppose there aren't going to be many ppl capable of exploiting you. Plus it gets you into good habits when you move up.
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Alright, thank you for the input. I'll slowly learn haha
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