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10nl TPTK for stacks

  
 
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Robb
Old 03-24-2008, 03:23 AM     Post subject: 10nl TPTK for stacks #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is 36/10/1.3 over 600+ hands, and is noted as a minor fish - not terrible.

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($3.50)
CO ($20.75)
Hero ($11.30)
SB ($8.15)
BB ($5.87)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 5 players) Hero is BTN
UTG calls $0.1, CO raises to $0.4, Hero raises to $1.2, 2 folds, UTG folds, CO calls $0.8

Flop: ($2.65, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.5, CO goes all-in $19.55, Hero ??
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wesrman
Old 03-24-2008, 03:30 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Wow.
Ive seen a lot of this kind of shit lately.
Minor fish doesnt give us much to go on.
Have u seen him pull this before???
I would lean towards a fold here but its really read dependant.
Theres no flush or straight draws out there even.
Im curious to see some replies.
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aka_red
Old 03-24-2008, 05:11 AM #3 (permalink)  
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kq ak aa kj 77?
me thinks ak kq 77 is most likelys
perhaps an ace and then another one odd no reraise

19,800 games 0.031 secs 638,709 games/sec

Board: Ks 3d 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.258% 36.02% 15.24% 7131 3018.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 48.742% 33.50% 15.24% 6633 3018.00 { AA, 77, AKs, KQs, AKo, KQo }
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dev
Old 03-24-2008, 05:16 AM #4 (permalink)  
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no draws on board, I'm inclined to fold.

Aside: flop bet sizing?
Check out my self-deprecation here!
 
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Fnord
Old 03-24-2008, 09:21 AM     Post subject: Re: 10nl TPTK for stacks #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
noted as a minor fish - not terrible.
Take better notes and don't berate your opponents in your notes.

If I've seen him fold to a 3-bet before, I would probably fold. If he commits to flops and the shove isn't too out of line for him, I would call. If he's very passive then I might lay this down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Robb
Old 03-24-2008, 12:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
no draws on board, I'm inclined to fold.

Aside: flop bet sizing?
LoL. Flop bet was an "out of time" aim at 2/3's. My 4 year old needed help blowing his nose.

No draws = inclined to fold?? Why? No draws drastically cuts down on what he could have here that beats us. AA, Kx, 77, 33 are ahead. But preflop AA/KK would probably have 4bet, and 33 is unlikely to have raised. What makes sense here in his raise/flat the 3bet range?

This is another hand like the "4 noobs, read this hand" post from a couple weeks ago. Nothing in his range that's beats us makes any sense for his betting pattern. That's what "hung me up" on the way to clicking the "fold crap now" button.
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eugmac
Old 03-24-2008, 12:49 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
no draws on board, I'm inclined to fold.

Aside: flop bet sizing?
No draws = inclined to fold?? Why? No draws drastically cuts down on what he could have here that beats us.
I think what he's saying is that opp didn't c/R all in with an 8 or 9 out draw that we'd be ahead of. If there's a million draws out there it'd be easier to hit the call button.
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Muzzard
Old 03-24-2008, 12:49 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
no draws on board, I'm inclined to fold.

Aside: flop bet sizing?
LoL. Flop bet was an "out of time" aim at 2/3's. My 4 year old needed help blowing his nose.

No draws = inclined to fold?? Why? No draws drastically cuts down on what he could have here that beats us. AA, Kx, 77, 33 are ahead. But preflop AA/KK would probably have 4bet, and 33 is unlikely to have raised. What makes sense here in his raise/flat the 3bet range?

This is another hand like the "4 noobs, read this hand" post from a couple weeks ago. Nothing in his range that's beats us makes any sense for his betting pattern. That's what "hung me up" on the way to clicking the "fold crap now" button.
It's tricky one. On the one hand he's quite passive, but on the other hand its a very small range that we are behind in a 3-bet pot - so leads me to belive this maybe a bluff and the board is so dry. Conflicting evidence :-s

AA/KK/33/77 are the only hands we should really be worried about and woudl any of those hands want to push here on this very dry flop. It just doesnt make sense at all. Do you know what his raise c-bet% is? Equally do he play mosters fast? I guess this is read dependant
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Fnord
Old 03-24-2008, 09:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
What makes sense here in his raise/flat the 3bet range?
Really looks like a badly played KQ/KJ/KT. Ship it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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frosst
Old 03-25-2008, 01:20 AM #10 (permalink)  
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i think this is more of a "special case" than a general guideline post. what i mean is, don't overthink your opponent's ability. imo, he's not thinking about maximizing value from his nut hand, he's just hoping you're going to stack since you put in a bet. fwiw, ive called a couple of these type of reraises just to see the hand, and its been a nut/near nut hand everytime (2pr >....at least that's the case @ UB 10nl) but if we want to look at utg limping w/ 36%vpip, i fully expect A3/A7 to be in opp range....... why? b/c they're suited lol.....but seriously, i'm expecting this kind of player to open limp any ace, and to not be very positionally aware, which makes his bet more likely to signal a very strong hand. another stat to look at is win pct. if he's winning 55% of the time or greater, and making this kind of raise (when he's normally passive), i'm expecting him to have a good hand.

 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 03-25-2008, 09:12 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Opp specific
Some clear fold, some clear call

That said, no way I'm folding this at 10NL
He could have AA or KK, standard, send the shipments
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XTR1000
Old 03-25-2008, 10:27 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
What makes sense here in his raise/flat the 3bet range?
I expect this to be AA/KK like 80% lately. I haven´t been 4bet by KK+ for weeks now.
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frosst
Old 03-25-2008, 12:24 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Opp specific
Some clear fold, some clear call

That said, no way I'm folding this at 10NL
He could have AA or KK, standard, send the shipments
if you're putting him on AA or KK, why do you call? you're beat either way

 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 03-25-2008, 01:35 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frosst
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Opp specific
Some clear fold, some clear call

That said, no way I'm folding this at 10NL
He could have AA or KK, standard, send the shipments
if you're putting him on AA or KK, why do you call? you're beat either way
He may have AA or KK, standard, send the shipments
FMP


The amounts of shit I've seen taking this line for stacking off at 10NL will certainly balance the call out

Sets or overpairs, at this limit, check/minraise 1000% of the time imo
There is gonna be a minraise involved at some point during the hand if villain's holding is genuinely strong
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martindcx1e
Old 03-25-2008, 01:49 PM #15 (permalink)  
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i think you are too far behind his range to call. the board is really dry. people don't normally do this with a single pair, and he isn't drawing.

post results eventually robb. i'm interested in this one
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frosst
Old 03-25-2008, 03:45 PM #16 (permalink)  
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i'm curious why we think KK AA are in his range when he raises 10% of his hands.......the only reason to say they are in his range is he was looking to slowplay them preflop and look to reraise, but he didn't do that. He just flat called. He then proceeds to check raise all-in the flop with no draws. If he's somewhat intelligent and is holding AA/KK, why is he check raising instead of check calling like he did preflop. This bet isn't to protect his hand, it's to try to exploit yours. I think the villian is putting you on TPTK/AA, and is hoping you'll stack.

 
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martindcx1e
Old 03-25-2008, 04:17 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frosst
i'm curious why we think KK AA are in his range when he raises 10% of his hands.......the only reason to say they are in his range is he was looking to slowplay them preflop and look to reraise, but he didn't do that. He just flat called. He then proceeds to check raise all-in the flop with no draws. If he's somewhat intelligent and is holding AA/KK, why is he check raising instead of check calling like he did preflop. This bet isn't to protect his hand, it's to try to exploit yours. I think the villian is putting you on TPTK/AA, and is hoping you'll stack.
calling a pre-flop 3bet oop and c/r all-in any flop is a pretty common line with AA these days. i even saw a p5 article about it a while back. it's def. not out of the question.
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Robb
Old 03-26-2008, 03:48 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
post results eventually robb. i'm interested in this one
http://weaktight.com/138102
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
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Robb
Old 03-26-2008, 03:50 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
Sets or overpairs, at this limit, check/minraise 1000% of the time imo
There is gonna be a minraise involved at some point during the hand if villain's holding is genuinely strong
This is one of the most important observations I've seen in this thread. I don't think is ALWAYS true, but it's definitely one of those "almost always true" statements. I need to keep it mind more.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
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