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10NL, QQ utg open gets 3bet, called for set odds - stupid?

  
 
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mbiz
Old 04-06-2010, 06:47 AM     Post subject: 10NL, QQ utg open gets 3bet, called for set odds - stupid? #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain somethng like 14/10 cant remeber exact stats but enough for me to put him on aces or kings.

I decided to turn my hand into a set hunt getting 13:1 with pretty strong implied odds, though in retrospect im not sure villain is the type to stack off with an overpair here.
TBH im not sure hwat im asking i just wanna make sure im not beign a total tard, but given villain is thinking i think my call pre is bad.

Flop is a clear fold right?



$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Hero ($13.20)
UTG+1 nevin325 ($17.45)
MP1 sanchello11 ($8)
MP2 FstTmPlyr ($22.20)
CO SauntererJIE ($8.15)
BTN Voynitskiy ($10)
SB TroyUA ($10.05)
BB richymen_15 ($15.30)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 8 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $0.40, 5 folds, TroyUA raises to $1.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.50, 2 players)
TroyUA bets $1.50, Hero???
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eugmac
Old 04-06-2010, 07:22 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 14/10 doesn't mean that he doesn't 3-bet with JJ or AK. We need more information to narrow his range to precisely KK+.
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Santo2True
Old 04-06-2010, 01:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 ^exactly, he would probably 3bet any ATs+, 77+.. there is nothing wrong with calling a 3bet in position with QQ....
as far as the flop, looks like a pretty standard c-bet to me. I'm probably calling here and planning on raising the turn depending on the action. Any low card I'm raising if he c-bets another $1.50 or low amount like that. His bet on the flop means nothing to me except that he probably missed since he didn't bet pot. But a call here and seeing the turn I think is the best move. He's c-betting AK, AQ.. he's probably checking any 88+ and I'd think he's betting pot with JJ+

However, I'm still not very good at ranges and more am just putting my thoughts of the hand out to see how far off i am.
"Those who say it can't be done, shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it"
 
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surviva316
Old 04-06-2010, 02:48 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 3b %age and sample size por favor

if his range is AK/AA/KK, then we should obv flat his cbet and try to get to SD, assuming a nit like this will give up with AK. also, if we're calling QQ here for the reason you state you're calling with QQ, then you should flat with TT here as well, ldo
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Santo2True
Old 04-06-2010, 03:22 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 what do you think if the turn was say a 2c, or 3c or anything of that sort and he bets another $1.50 on turn? or at that point maybe $2.75.... we should be raising here you think?

Pokerstove says this...

Board: 9s 9h 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.114% 66.11% 00.00% 39926 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 33.886% 33.89% 00.00% 20464 0.00 { KK+, JJ-88, AKs, AJs-ATs, AKo }

and just for the sake of it, if the turn was something as i stated...

Board: 9s 9h 6h 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.917% 69.92% 00.00% 39926 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 30.083% 30.08% 00.00% 20464 0.00 { KK+, JJ-88, AKs, AJs-ATs, AKo }


I mean it seems like we have alot of equity here against his 3bet range and continuation range. I know I wouldn't be folding here, calling behind seems best and turn could change alot
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surviva316
Old 04-06-2010, 05:54 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 uhhhh well we still haven't heard reads on villains 3b'ing tenancies, but i'm gonna go ahead and call those ranges you gave for a 14/10's 3b of an UTG open and double barrel an innocuous board to be pretty crazy.

my post was under the assumption that villain's range is something super tight like AA/KK/AK, and that villain would be unlikely to barrel his AK on a card like the 2c
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Santo2True
Old 04-06-2010, 06:20 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 right, that's why I included a card like that. I figured we'd be getting checked to on the turn if anything like that shows up in which case we are betting unless he does decide to throw the second barrel in which case we are raising right?

If any of my thinking is flawed please explain, I'm trying so hard to get a grasp on the whole range thing and equity. At times it seems to be a huge help and then others I just can't put it to work correctly
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mbiz
Old 04-06-2010, 09:43 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I cant remember his 3bet % or reads sorry. Sample size was something like 140 or so.
I called the cbet (silly if im putting him on AA/KK like i was, maybe part of me didnt..or maybe im a station).

Turn comes Ac, he checks
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kmind
Old 04-06-2010, 11:44 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Please don't call 3bets for set value with 100bb stacks. Don't raise ever in this hand please too.

Check that A turn
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rpm
Old 04-07-2010, 12:18 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 AK is a bigger part of his preflop range than QQ+ if his range is the standard QQ+,AK. i assume most villains cbet AK for one street because they 3bet pre. if you raise flop then you make sure that you are up against the strongest part of his range, with which he will probably 3bet and make you fold your raise. calling the flop is better i think. i doubt he two barrels a bricked AK oop especially when your range looks like TT,JJ,QQ so i fold if he leads the turn. thus costing us only the flop CALL when we are beat, rather than a call+raise.
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