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10NL: QQ Flop decision

  
 
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chink44
Old 12-07-2008, 08:34 PM     Post subject: 10NL: QQ Flop decision #1 (permalink)  
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Stars game. Sitting for a little while 7 tabling, so no real idea. His numbers were 41/11/4.4 over 56 hands. His 7x pre-flop raise seems like AA/KK, or AK. I was running 36/9/.05 over 11 hands, but not sure if he was aware of that. Wanted to 3 bet to see what type of action he would give and what he was planning on doing. When he just called I figured for AK, 10s+. His bet into me on the flop has me worried, but this is the type of flop I was looking for.

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Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises $0.70, 2 folds, Hero raises $1.50, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.80

Flop: ($3.15) 9, 8, 7 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $2.90, Hero ??
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-07-2008, 09:14 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Was this his first 7x preflop raise? What was his standard and how many times had he done it?

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mieczkowusc
Old 12-07-2008, 09:20 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Tough spot. What are the suits of the cards on the board?

Does a raise accomplish anything here? He is probably folding AK to the raise, and reraising or shoving As, Ks and 10s with the OESD. At the same time though, I can't really see getting away from this flop.

Would AQs be in his opening range? (I don't really think it makes much of a difference)

I don't know if this is correct or not, but I would flat call the flop and see what he does on the turn. I would imagine that Ks and As would bet big again on the turn, AK, Qs, Js, and Ts would check-call.

Also, are you sure that 9s or 8s are not in his range?
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chink44
Old 12-07-2008, 09:52 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I wasnt really sure what his opening betting range was, I was only at the table for 11 hands so far and dont have much history with the villain, and I was also 7 tabling. When he bet into me on the flop it seemed like an overpair to the board, something like 10's or JJ. I dont see raising having much value here because if he has something like AKs,AQs, he will probably get it in with the NFD and two overs. Possible a 10s or Ks. So what we are saying is a call and evaluate the turn will work better because he will only continue with AA,KK, or the NFD?
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mieczkowusc
Old 12-07-2008, 10:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Im not saying that only As and Ks or the flush draw will bet again on the turn, but it gives you extra information being in position.
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chink44
Old 12-07-2008, 10:39 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Ok, I see your ideas

For some reason I cant get the colors and suits to show
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badgers
Old 12-07-2008, 10:51 PM #7 (permalink)  
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His 7x pre-flop raise seems like AA/KK, or AK.

In this case why are you 3betting pre?
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mieczkowusc
Old 12-08-2008, 12:01 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
His 7x pre-flop raise seems like AA/KK, or AK.

In this case why are you 3betting pre?
I wouldn't automatically assume its AA, KK or AK. I think OP is right in thinking that it could be another big pair. Villain may not have wanted to encourage a bunch of callers to come along for the ride, but hoping that AJ+, QJs+ or another pocket pair might flat his bet to play a HU pot.

It also could be a misclick or a very unlikely, balsy steal attempt.

Also, assuming he is opening 7x with AA or KK, he would probably be hoping to be reraised so that he could get more money in preflop. I don't understand why you would flat call a reraise in EP with a big pair then lead the flop when you are ahead. The most logical play in this instance if villain was opening AA or KK would be to flat the reraise, and check-raise the flop.

If he is opening AK, its more understandable that he would flat preflop. But why would he bet the flop as such? Does he think that he is pushing out a missed AK or AQ? Otherwise, he is expecting to get called and be behind?

I think AQs might do this, with a flush draw. If he opens and gets reraised, it might be AK or a larger pair. He could push AK off the hand on the flop, and if he got raised, he isn't in bad shape against most hands. He would have to hit the 9 out flush against AA, but against any other overpair he has an additional 3 outs.

That was entirely hypothetical, but I hope it made some sense.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-08-2008, 12:08 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mieczkowusc
Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
His 7x pre-flop raise seems like AA/KK, or AK.

In this case why are you 3betting pre?
I wouldn't automatically assume its AA, KK or AK.
You're right, the assumption probably isn't best. I'd even wager that a range of AK/JJ specifically is more accurate than AK/KK+ but badgers is still right in pointing out that you need to keep a congruent line/thought process in every hand. Can't say his raise means he probably rapes me and then small 3 bet him!

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mieczkowusc
Old 12-08-2008, 12:34 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
You're right, the assumption probably isn't best. I'd even wager that a range of AK/JJ specifically is more accurate than AK/KK+ but badgers is still right in pointing out that you need to keep a congruent line/thought process in every hand. Can't say his raise means he probably rapes me and then small 3 bet him!
I didn't realize that badgers was quoting the OP; but I definitely agree that small 3 betting someone you put on AK/KK+ is probably not the best idea.

Unless your name is GreyCat or something and you know he has AK...
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chink44
Old 12-08-2008, 07:29 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Well my assumption for the line he took was somewhere between 10's+ and AK, possibly AQ. I dont see why he wouldnt 4 bet AK OOP to gain information. His stats were only over a very small amount of hands and I couldnt go off of them. His line was just really weird and I couldnt put him on a monster. There are a ton of drawing hands that I am way ahead of here. My thought was to get it in, but I wasnt sure. If anyone wants to comment go ahead. I will post the results to this later
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chink44
Old 12-08-2008, 08:49 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Does anyone ever see a set show up here. Not saying that most people ever play a set this way because we usually check raise. But just by thinking on this board if he thinks we missed or wont c\bet, any chance he bets into us here hoping for a fold and not just a check behind. Because if he thinks that some how we are or could have drawing cards and wont bet after his check, he may want to get value or for us to fold out here.
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chink44
Old 12-08-2008, 10:16 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Ok, so it turns out that I ended up raising this flop and to make things short we eventually got it all-in on the flop. The board ran out all low cards and he ended up flipping over KK
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