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zbeg
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11-10-2009, 12:14 AM
Post subject: 10NL flop top two pair with flush draw on board
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3
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PokerStars, $0.05/0.10 Hold'em Cash Games, 5 Players
Board:
CO: $11.05
Button: $6.05
SB: $10
BB: $28.70
UTG: $20.60
Dealt to CO T 9
Pre-flop:
(1 folds), CO raises to $.40, (2 folds), BB calls $.30
Flop: ($.85) T 4 9 (2 Players)
BB bets $.50, CO raises to $2.30, BB raises to $28.30 and is all-in, CO calls $8.35 and is all-in.
No reads on villain.
I think this is a bad call, but I'm not sure.
Only hand I was worried about is 44, as it is unlikely he has TT or 99, so I figured he was most likely on a flush draw.
But him shoving with a flush draw is pretty bad too, since the only hands he would beat if he has something like A J is if I had a hand like K Q and was drawing to a lower flush. Even if I have TPTK he's a slight dog.
At 10NL I expcet people to shove with flush draws like that, even though I know it's pretty bad to do so. Is my reasoning flawed, or should this have been a fold?
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scfc_andy15
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
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Definetly 44 is a big possibility, but I can see him doing this with QJhh aswell as 87hh. Cant see just a bare flush draw calling a shove, but villian could be bad enough to do that. A10 does this but rarely. I honestly can't see you are ahead that much as you arent even a favourite against QJhh. Maybe my analysis is shit though lol
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"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...in-t87954.html
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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surviva316
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11-10-2009, 06:48 PM
Post subject: Re: 10NL flop top two pair with flush draw on board
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zbeg
But him shoving with a flush draw is pretty bad too, since the only hands he would beat if he has something like A J is if I had a hand like K Q and was drawing to a lower flush. Even if I have TPTK he's a slight dog. |
this part of the analysis is very very flawed. in fact, if villain knew that he would make you have to consider folding top two by shoving, than going all in is like the easiest poker decision you're going to run into.
as you pointed out, there are only 5 combos of sets, there are 3 million combos of FD's, there are a lot of combos of OESD's and GSSD's + tainted overs and there are some possibilities out there of him spazzing out with a hand you dominate like ATo or T4s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.
Right?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LawDude
I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.
Right?
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That's one way to think about it, but an easier way to think about it that is more conceptual and less mathematically and software-demanding can be found in my new book "The Link I Posted Above".
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Sorry, spoon, you are right.
In any event, let's form a consensus as to what range we put villain on and see if Hero has the equity to call.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LawDude
I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.
Right?
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That's one way to think about it, but an easier way to think about it that is more conceptual and less mathematically and software-demanding can be found in my new book "The Link I Posted Above". |
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