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10NL - Couple of overpairs

  
 
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kfaess
Old 03-30-2009, 12:04 AM     Post subject: 10NL - Couple of overpairs #1 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1:

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed)

Hero (UTG) ($10.30)
MP ($12.05)
Button ($10)
SB ($6.90)
BB ($10.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J
Hero bets $0.40, MP calls $0.40, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 10, 2, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.55) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP calls $2

River: ($6.55) 7 (2 players)
Hero ???


Hand 2:

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($10.15)
UTG ($3.35)
MP ($10.05)
CO ($10.90)
Button ($10)
SB ($39.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
UTG calls $0.10, MP bets $0.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.15) 9, 8, 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.75) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1.70, Hero calls $1.70

River: ($6.15) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3, Hero calls $3

Total pot: $12.15

Hand 1 is against a 46/21/0.8 station. What is his range on the river and if we're ahead can we squeeze any more value out of this hand? When I was playing I came to the conclusion that FD's, 99, 88 aren't going to call a 3rd bet on the river so I checked it to him and he checked back. He had 55. Maybe he would even have called with a 6 or 7 much of the time?

Hand 2 is against a 13/8/inf so I decided check calling to the river would be best against such a tight and aggressive player?? We're ahead of TT, JJ, AK so that should be enough equity to get to showdown I'm assuming? Not sure if this line is wrong and if it is where its wrong so I just gave the entire HH.
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Muzzard
Old 03-30-2009, 12:11 AM #2 (permalink)  
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1. I probably bet unless i think he's agrro enough to bet missed draws then I c/c

2. I bet bet bet, until he gives me a reason to fold.
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Carroters
Old 03-30-2009, 12:23 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 I 3 bet this pre-flop mainly because QQ can be troublesome and awkward oop. I think we're far enough ahead of his 3 bet continuing range her for this to be okay, gaining the initiative just makes the hand easier to play and allows us to get more value from the hand.

As played I think c/c is okay on this flop, but I think I b/f the turn to make sure a bet goes in here, I don't want him checking back with a hand we beat especially one with overs (AK). So yeah maybe c/c flop, lead turn and lead river for value if called.

 
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ATOTHEC101
Old 03-30-2009, 11:06 AM #4 (permalink)  
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hand 1: Against this guy bet bet bet, half pot on river sounds good, fold to a raise ldo.

hand 2: my standard is to 3 bet pre but I don't encounter many players this tight, I also like carroters line of c/c flop then b/f turn and b/f river for value.
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:14 PM #5 (permalink)  
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reads would be nice... I totally don't see bet/bet/bet in hand 1 as the best play against every opponent

against me you should probably c/f because I'm never paying you off on the river with worse, but I am probably checking back a worse hand that has showdown value
I just soulread myself in this spot and I have QQ/22/66/JJ (never KK+ because I'll 3b those) if I make it to the river and occasionally 77-99 (although that would make less sense because if I call your raise I'm trying to setmine with those hands) and I'll be folding 88/99 on the river unless I level myself into calling due to small bet sizing
the reason I don't have flush draws in my range is because I'd probably raise them on the flop
the reason I don't have any Tx in my range is because I'd raise it on the flop or the turn

but we don't even know how this guy thinks, whether he raises flush draws or Tx or whether he will show up with a random hand like 6x or 7x for no reason
so if the guy is a fish you should probably b/f

hand 2 I like and probably play the same, but donking the turn should be looked into I don't really use that
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kfaess
Old 03-30-2009, 05:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
hand 2 I like and probably play the same, but donking the turn should be looked into I don't really use that
I agree, I wasn't really thinking about that line but it does have some merit. Not sure the best line in this particular case since we're up against a pretty tight and agg players which makes be want to b/f less and c/c more.
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Benzooka
Old 03-31-2009, 04:04 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Against donks get a hand top pair top kicker or better and bet bet bet and if they show resistance reevaluate and consider getting out.

QQ reraise pre out of position. As played, raise flop. It will still get value from plenty of his range and let you take control. The line you take you have to call river though.
If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.
 
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kmind
Old 03-31-2009, 04:51 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 Hand 2 you need to fold on the river maybe turn if you have better reads. People at these stakes esp. with these stats aren't going to be triple barrel bluffing same with rarely even double barreling.
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kfaess
Old 03-31-2009, 05:03 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Hand 2 you need to fold on the river maybe turn if you have better reads. People at these stakes esp. with these stats aren't going to be triple barrel bluffing same with rarely even double barreling.
interested in having you say more. what exactly are you setting his range as? are you saying that you don't think hes gonna double barrel the turn with JJ/TT?
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bigspenda73
Old 03-31-2009, 05:09 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 yea the river in 2 is kinda close, I'd probably bet/fold it the way we've played the hand b/c he'll "bluff-catch" and we don't have a missed draw!

if he's a station then bet/fold appears to be the best line although c/f could be "ok" as well.
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kmind
Old 03-31-2009, 07:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Hand 2 you need to fold on the river maybe turn if you have better reads. People at these stakes esp. with these stats aren't going to be triple barrel bluffing same with rarely even double barreling.
interested in having you say more. what exactly are you setting his range as? are you saying that you don't think hes gonna double barrel the turn with JJ/TT?
This is kind of completely generalizing but yeah I think villains c/c a lot with JJ/TT on say the turn or at least river and the b/b/b line is almost always a bigger PP or set.
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kfaess
Old 03-31-2009, 10:31 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Hand 2 you need to fold on the river maybe turn if you have better reads. People at these stakes esp. with these stats aren't going to be triple barrel bluffing same with rarely even double barreling.
interested in having you say more. what exactly are you setting his range as? are you saying that you don't think hes gonna double barrel the turn with JJ/TT?
This is kind of completely generalizing but yeah I think villains c/c a lot with JJ/TT on say the turn or at least river and the b/b/b line is almost always a bigger PP or set.
fwiw you're right, he showed up with KK. that could be a little results oriented but in general i think i agree although it seems really opponent dependent. for example, really aggressive opponents would prob bet JJ/TT while really passive ones might check KK/AA and try to slowplay.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:46 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Hand 2 you need to fold on the river maybe turn if you have better reads. People at these stakes esp. with these stats aren't going to be triple barrel bluffing same with rarely even double barreling.
interested in having you say more. what exactly are you setting his range as? are you saying that you don't think hes gonna double barrel the turn with JJ/TT?
This is kind of completely generalizing but yeah I think villains c/c a lot with JJ/TT on say the turn or at least river and the b/b/b line is almost always a bigger PP or set.
while this is true, you have pretty good pot odds so the river call is probably break-even long term when he does decide to valuebet his JJ
he can't c/c IP obv
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Outlaw
Old 04-01-2009, 02:12 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Looks like two standard 3 streets of value hands to me. Don't be afraid to bet the river. Checking can put you in some tough spots. If you check and he shoves these hands then what? Its best to go ahead and commit and put the tough decision on him.
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dtamburin
Old 04-01-2009, 03:54 PM #15 (permalink)  

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Hand 1:
I don't think I would bet this guy, but I'd definitely call down. He's pretty damm passive so I think he could have a 10. I don't like paired boards.

Hand 2:
I'm raising pre-flop and betting the flop, barring any craziness.
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TAGurit
Old 04-01-2009, 08:35 PM #16 (permalink)  

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hand 1 - i'm definitely betting the river. checking just because you don't think he'll call doesn't make sense to me.
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