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Sasquach991
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01-20-2009, 03:32 PM
Post subject: 10NL-BB-Flopped 2 pair
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rat Cheer
Posts: 1,012
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Villian was 65/2/?? over about 40 hands. He seemed to limp in on every PF and would min bet every street if checked to him.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($10)
MP ($10.65)
CO ($14)
Button ($8.80)
SB ($11)
Hero (BB) ($9.75)
PF-I should have opened PF
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 5
2 folds, CO calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, Hero checks
Flop- I over bet in case he was on a flush draw which I figured he was on. Maybe Kx but I didn't think so. When he had a pair he would usually minbet
Flop: ($0.40) 5 , 6, K (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold
Turn: ($1.80) 10 (2 players)
Hero ???
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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you have got to realize that once you start moving up/playing with people that actually know the very basics of poker that overbetting the flop like that (which I have seen you do like every time in your posted hands) will be disastrious for different reasons. You have to realize what you are doing when you overbet the flop and I'm not sure what you are asking for on the turn? Put him on a range. And NOT just a standard "he can have this because he called the flop and limped preflop". Go into more detail about what he shows up with more often when he calls 2x pot bets, etc.
What do you mean you should have opened PF?
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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You have monster sick equity here, and opponent has already made a mistake if chasing the flush. Pot bet.
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Illfavor
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
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Pot every street. Kmind said it really well about overbetting, it's just dumb. You have to look at things in terms of relative pot sizes. Sure, some donkeys will call because "you only bet a little" but if you play well they will gladly hand their chips over eventually.
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Ich grolle nicht...
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Sasquach991
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rat Cheer
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
you have got to realize that once you start moving up/playing with people that actually know the very basics of poker that overbetting the flop like that (which I have seen you do like every time in your posted hands) will be disastrious for different reasons. You have to realize what you are doing when you overbet the flop and I'm not sure what you are asking for on the turn? Put him on a range. And NOT just a standard "he can have this because he called the flop and limped preflop". Go into more detail about what he shows up with more often when he calls 2x pot bets, etc.
What are the reasons why overbetting the flop are disastrious?
What do you mean you should have opened PF?
You guys always say "Don't limp in"
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
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hangchiong
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
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What are the reasons why overbetting the flop are disastrious?
We chase away weaker hands that will call us,and only hands that we are behind,will call us.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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limping in is not the same as checking the big blind. If you wanted to raise a garbage hand due to loose passive openers, you can find better hands to do it with.
As to overbetting, what does that do to our opponents calling range?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I'll respond to YOUR answers, sasquatch. Sorry, but I feel as if responding to answers as opposed to responding to questions is a better way to learn. The past two responses are good starts.
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Erpel
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
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You should raise PF with hands that you want to play PF. K5o is not such a hand, so checking PF is correct.
On the flop, I'm not as hostile to the overbet as most other here, but I think they have a valid argument. The argument for overbetting is that if you want to stack off the flop is the only street where you have any real chance of being called on an overbet by a horrible opponent. By all accounts this is a horrible opponent - one who might look at the bet in absolute $ amounts and not relative to the pot. It is possibly correct to overbet on the flop if you expect to be called super-light, but it requires a solid read on the villain, and I'm not sure the description of him absolutely qualifies.
Now, more about overbets. Let's say you overbet here when you're crushing your opponent - say you have two pair or a set on the flop. Fair enough - you want to get paid off.
Next hand you flop a TPGK - not worth an overbet so you put in a normal sized bet. Any villain with any observational skills at all will know that you can have a TPGK or draw type hand but you cannot - absolutely not - have two pair or a set, because you overbet those. He'll be able to string you along for a couple of bets and then when the pot is nice and juicy he can push you out of it - because he knows you don't have a monster.
Overbets only work when they get called by weaker hands - the most likely result of an overbet is all weaker hands folding and all stronger hands calling. Combine that with monsters needing to take betting lines taken by weaker hands to give them protection and it should be possible to see that overbetting is not something to enter into lightly.
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Sasquach991
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rat Cheer
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
I'll respond to YOUR answers, sasquatch. Sorry, but I feel as if responding to answers as opposed to responding to questions is a better way to learn. The past two responses are good starts.
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Overbetting the pot may cause draws to fold and better hands to fold. WAG
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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1. keep bets to PSB, otherwise your betting becomes exploitable
2. fire fire fire
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Erpel
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sasquach991
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
I'll respond to YOUR answers, sasquatch. Sorry, but I feel as if responding to answers as opposed to responding to questions is a better way to learn. The past two responses are good starts.
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Overbetting the pot may cause draws to fold and better hands to fold. WAG |
Name one better hand he could have on the flop that would fold.
Since you are expecting better hands to fold, you would also logically expect all worse hands to fold (as he'd only call with his very best hands, presumably). Now when he calls, does that mean you automatically assume you are beat?
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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What does "WAG" mean? sorry.
And, you think K6/55/66 are folding?
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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WAG = wild ass guess
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Sasquach991
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rat Cheer
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
What does "WAG" mean? sorry.
And, you think K6/55/66 are folding?
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SWAG=Scientific Wild Ass Guess
By draws I mean flush or straight draws.
I really don't know the answer. Let me think on it some more. Do I ever want to overbet? Isn't a push an overbet?
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Stop assuming people have a flush draw just because the flop has two cards of the same suit and they called a bet.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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First off.. One thing you might want to consider is... I don't want draws to fold.
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