Poker Forum

Over 1,232,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Fortitude
Old 11-15-2009, 01:50 AM     Post subject: 10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB #1 (permalink)  
3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 78
Fortitude
Villain is 30/26/22 over 92 hands (last number is 3bet percentage)
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($3.36)
Hero (Button) ($10.07)
SB ($2)
BB ($15.88)
UTG ($2.36)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
4 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.85) 7, 7, 3 (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.85 | Rake: $0.25

So basically I flat preflop because I don't want to chase out worse hands.
After he bets on the flop I put him on an overpair or he could be doing this with two overs if he feels the flop has not hit me. I am in this situation a lot with two overs facing a half-2/3 pot bet and I always feel as if the opponent is betting with air.
I call on the flop and I fold the turn

The reason i am posting this is I am having difficulty being able to distinguish when my opponent is bluffing here and when he isnt (on the flop). He three bet pre flop and I guess he sensed weakness in my flat call preflop and could potentially be betting air here.
but how would I know?

Thanks
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Pelion
Old 11-15-2009, 03:54 AM #2 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
Hes 3betting 22%? How do you not get this in preflop?
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
Pelion
Old 11-15-2009, 03:59 AM #3 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
To explain further. If hes 3betting this wide then one of two things is going to happen.

a) You 4bet and he folds anything worse than AK. You 4bet bluff a shittonne and get rich quick.

b) He covers that weakness a little (either knowingly or not) by getting it in with worse than AK preflop. You 4bet here for value and get rich quick.

b is going to be far more common, especially given hes generally loose.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
Pelion
Old 11-15-2009, 04:02 AM #4 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
Do yourself a favour. Download pokerstove. Pretend his 3bet is 15% or so to err on the side of caution with the relatively small number of hands you have on him. Plug it into pokerstove and have a look at just how many hands that is.

www.pokerstove.com
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 11-15-2009, 04:32 AM #5 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Fortitude
Old 11-15-2009, 09:17 AM #6 (permalink)  
3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 78
Fortitude
I have poker stove I just don't have the time to use it in game when multitabling

I mostly use it when reviewing hands
Reply With Quote
Pelion
Old 11-15-2009, 12:34 PM #7 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?
92 hands isnt that small. Its enough that his true 3bet almost has to be over 10, and is pretty likely to be as high as 15.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
rpm
Old 11-17-2009, 04:28 AM #8 (permalink)  
rpm's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 1,871
rpm has a spectacular aura aboutrpm has a spectacular aura about
 this ones definitely a preflop shove for me considering how much he's been threebetting, and he's 3betting against your range when it's at it's widest (the BU)
Reply With Quote
rpm
Old 11-17-2009, 04:28 AM #9 (permalink)  
rpm's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 1,871
rpm has a spectacular aura aboutrpm has a spectacular aura about
 this ones definitely a preflop shove for me considering how much he's been threebetting, and he's 3betting against your range when it's at it's widest (the BU)
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 11-17-2009, 09:08 AM     Post subject: Re: 10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB #10 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: I hope you make me eat my words 'cause my words is pussy, a-pussah-pussay!
Posts: 1,601
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortitude
So basically I flat preflop because I don't want to chase out worse hands.
believe it or not, one of the things that makes AKo so valuable is it's fold equity preflop because it has blockers to AA,KK. pelion gives good reasoning for getting it in preflop vs this opponent.

as for post flop, i got through 10nl in auto-float mode (though not necessarily suggested), and i think that floating a 1/2 PSB cbet on a board that missed his range (it only missed it because he's such a chronic 3b'er) with backdoor flush draw + solid overs will have some pretty +EV results. once he barrels the turn, any option that involves continuing would be massive spew without sick reads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 11-17-2009, 09:28 AM #11 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?
92 hands isnt that small. Its enough that his true 3bet almost has to be over 10, and is pretty likely to be as high as 15.
his 3bet % is likely at least half of what it says right now over a legit sample size, but it definately is wide as you mentoin. and yeah I'd be 4bet/calling this pre.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Pelion
Old 11-17-2009, 11:24 AM #12 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortitude
I have poker stove I just don't have the time to use it in game when multitabling

I mostly use it when reviewing hands
Same with everyone else I expect. I mean go review.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
Carroters
Old 11-17-2009, 01:51 PM #13 (permalink)  
Carroters's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,213
Carroters has a spectacular aura aboutCarroters has a spectacular aura about
 Taking this pot down preflop with AK is a great result, getting it in preflop is also a great result.

Flatting wouldn't even enter into my thought process in this spot. If he's spewy, I could flat like AA and KK here and rape him postflop.

 
Reply With Quote
bigspenda73
Old 11-17-2009, 02:25 PM #14 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
getting it in preflop is also a great result.
nah
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 11-17-2009, 04:28 PM #15 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: I hope you make me eat my words 'cause my words is pussy, a-pussah-pussay!
Posts: 1,601
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
getting it in preflop is also a great result.
well let's not get the kid's hopes up:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,848 games 0.008 secs 4,356,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Ts 7h 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.727% 36.42% 08.30% 12693 2893.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.273% 46.97% 08.30% 16368 2893.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

does that make all the newbies' heads asplode? if you're looking to be a favorite going AIPF with AKo, you're going to be disappointed. it always helps to do a lot of soul searching to figure out WHY getting it all in preflop with AK and QQ is so often profitable at 6m even though they're pretty much always behind like every range. you'll save yourself a lot of money in the future in certain situations, and win yourself a good bit of money knowing when to 4b and when not to and so forth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
kmind
Old 11-17-2009, 04:36 PM #16 (permalink)  
kmind's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,234
kmind is on a distinguished road
 Quick edit your post surviva!
Reply With Quote
Pelion
Old 11-17-2009, 05:38 PM #17 (permalink)  
Pelion's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
getting it in preflop is also a great result.
well let's not get the kid's hopes up:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,848 games 0.008 secs 4,356,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Ts 7h 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.727% 36.42% 08.30% 12693 2893.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.273% 46.97% 08.30% 16368 2893.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

does that make all the newbies' heads asplode? if you're looking to be a favorite going AIPF with AKo, you're going to be disappointed. it always helps to do a lot of soul searching to figure out WHY getting it all in preflop with AK and QQ is so often profitable at 6m even though they're pretty much always behind like every range. you'll save yourself a lot of money in the future in certain situations, and win yourself a good bit of money knowing when to 4b and when not to and so forth.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
Reply With Quote
surviva316
Old 11-17-2009, 06:34 PM #18 (permalink)  
surviva316's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: I hope you make me eat my words 'cause my words is pussy, a-pussah-pussay!
Posts: 1,601
surviva316 will become famous soon enough
 DAMNIT, PELION ALREADY QUOTED ME ON IT!!!!!

well, anyway, my general point still holds:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.291% 45.46% 07.83% 588519936 101330382.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 46.709% 38.88% 07.83% 503321124 101330382.00 { 99+, AJs+, AJo+ }
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
Reply With Quote
kmind
Old 11-17-2009, 09:28 PM #19 (permalink)  
kmind's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,234
kmind is on a distinguished road
 I tried
Reply With Quote
spoonitnow
Old 11-17-2009, 09:39 PM #20 (permalink)  
spoonitnow's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
spoonitnow is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to spoonitnow Send a message via MSN to spoonitnow Send a message via Yahoo to spoonitnow Send a message via Skype™ to spoonitnow
 A bit of your value from stacking off with AK comes from the times he folds a hand he should call with. Just sayin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 11-18-2009, 12:06 AM #21 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
A bit of your value from stacking off with AK comes from the times he folds a hand he should call with. Just sayin.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
KingIv3rson
Old 11-18-2009, 10:34 PM #22 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toledo
Posts: 2
KingIv3rson
if it were me im raising his 3bet..AK is a very good hand and since u stated he was 3betting alot...why not raise. I think the flat call on the flop is bad imo
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 02-11-2012, 09:04 PM    Tennessee worries that Online Poker could reduce State Lottery revenues
There are a number of officials in Tennessee who believe that legalized online poker would cut into their state lottery revenues, much of which goes towards education programs. Shirley Raines, Preside ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:31 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.