Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

10NL - 3 Hands for Review

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
PlayToWin
Old 11-17-2008, 10:35 PM     Post subject: 10NL - 3 Hands for Review #1 (permalink)  
PlayToWin's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
PlayToWin is on a distinguished road
 Here's a variety of hands. I could use some feedback. Thanks.

Hand 1: Villian is 24/26 over 250 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($14.60)
Hero (Button) ($10.10)
SB ($10.65)
BB ($10.45)
UTG ($21.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.45) 2, 9, K (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.70, BB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.85) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

River: ($4.55) Q (2 players)
BB bets $3.20, Hero ????

How would you play it? Is a call +EV here, or should I just fold?

===========================================
Hand 2: Villian is 31/1.9 over 60 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($3.25)
SB ($2.20)
BB ($9.80)
UTG ($4.90)
MP ($5.90)
Hero (CO) ($10.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds, MP calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.05) 6, 5, 3 (3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.30, Button raises to $1.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.65) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.65 (All-In), Hero ???

How would you play it? Is a call +EV here, or should I just fold?

=============================================
Hand 3: Villian is 28.6/14.3 over 14 hands

My check on the turn was for pot control, since I only had 1 pair.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($10.60)
UTG ($7.65)
MP ($9.55)
Button ($14.05)
Hero (SB) ($11.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q
2 folds, Button calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) Q, 7, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, BB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.50) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($1.50) J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero ????

How would you play it? Is a call +EV here, or should I just fold?
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
a500lbgorilla
Old 11-17-2008, 10:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Look at the flop on hand 2 and see how much the opponent made you put in when you were behind? Now look at the flop play on hand 1 and how you were trying to string your opponent along and got into more trouble because of it!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 10:46 PM #3 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Hand 1: if you don't call you're retarded
what happens when he's betting AK or 99 for value?
do you really think a flush is his ENTIRE value range?

Hand 2: I fold flop because he hit it and we have ace high, he's also committed so we need to hit an ace or a king to take the rest of his stack which is unlikely to happen

Hand 3: I'd bet the turn and check the river the reason being is that his range is draws on the flop/turn so some villains will fire a desperate bluff on the river after they miss and get checked to

as played I call because the raise is so small
he could also have had a straight draw and hit the jack instead
but be prepared to lose most of the time calling this
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 11-17-2008, 11:04 PM #4 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
 1) raise more pre, 0.40. (and what Rilla said)

2) "standard" pre is 4bb + 1 for each limper so make it 0.5 here. You flop bet is way to small, never bet less than 1/2 a pot until you understand the situations where it would make sense.

Go find the multitude of pot odds threads that were created over the weekend and come back with your own answer about weather to call this turn bet (and what iopq said).

3) did you play SnGs? You bet sizing is waaay small. Again, 0.50 pre, bet at least 3/4 pot on flop. DON'T CHECK TURN!!! Pot control is more relevant when your opponents are aggressive and likely to raise you at any time.

I call because the raise is small and he has to have QJ/JT/89 or a terribly played set.

I don't think you really get eV. And have just seen it used a lot.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
Reply With Quote
dranger7070
Old 11-18-2008, 01:11 AM #5 (permalink)  
dranger7070's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
dranger7070 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Send a message via AIM to dranger7070 Send a message via MSN to dranger7070
Hand 1.) You need to RAISE MORE PREFLOP KID!!! Minraising with KK is just inviting trouble. You need to bump it up to 4xbb minimum. Obviously you call river bet. Sure sometimes he will have the flush but its your own fault for letting him get there and a lot of times he is betting a worse hand here.

Hand 2.) You need to fold this on turn for sure. He definitely hit that flop and you are behind the majority of the time here. Again bet MORE PREFLOP. Cant emphasize this enough. You bet to drive out junk hands that hit flops like this. And of course to build a pot. You want to build a big pot not trap a small one.

Hand 3.) DONT CHECK ON TURN. That is your biggest problem in this hand. Like i said in hand 2 you want to win a big pot not trap a small one. What happens when a King pops up on the turn and villain bets into you? You have to make a crying call which is a situation you never want to be in. Get your money in when you have the best hand. That simple. As played: CALL obviously.
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 11-18-2008, 01:49 AM #6 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Alright, now that I can has alcohol in my bloodstream!

Play2Win, describe the robustness of your thoughtprocess during all hands played on a scale of 1-10. If it's higher than a 3, you're way off.

In hand one, turn play is you being a bitch. I know this because flop play spots me the I, a, m, a, b, i, t, and h

Hand two, what is the possible reasoning for calling the flop. And it can't boil down to "EV!!!!" like you seem to be begging to understand at the end of the hands! What does EV mean to you?!

Hand 3, you almost didn't butcher the flop! played it alright at best! But what could the possible reason for NOT betting the turn be? Because after the flop all you know how to do is turn your cards over and look hopefully at the dealer to ship you the pot?!

Take that for what it's worth!!!!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 11-18-2008, 01:52 AM #7 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
also, sorry for being so harsh! but I think I'm teaching you something very helpful!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
PlayToWin
Old 11-18-2008, 05:58 AM #8 (permalink)  
PlayToWin's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
PlayToWin is on a distinguished road
 Thanks for all the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
standard" pre is 4bb + 1 for each limper...
I had heard 3 or 4X the BB was standard so I chose 3X. However, everyone seems to agree with you, so I'll start using this formula and see how the table adjusts to it. By that, I mean that most of these tables are so damn tight that they'll fold to any bet. I was getting pissed that my premo Hole Cards (KK (twice), AA, etc.)) weren't getting any action. The AA hand, I was in the BB and the whole table folded to me. Damnit!! Even on the flop they are tight, I flopped a Full House and bet .30 and everyone folded. So I started delaying a bet till the turn to let someone hit a card and the one person still in the hand will fold to a .20 bet. Damnit!!! So, I was trying to adjust to the weak tables, but that's not good poker so I'll change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
2) Go find the multitude of pot odds threads that were created over the weekend and come back with your own answer about weather to call this turn bet.
First off, let me say that I don't think I've ever played a hand with this line. I consciously wanted to try something different. Typically, I may call a small flop bet to see the turn, but I'd always fold to a raise of this size with only 2 overcards. In this hand, my small flop bet was a blocking bet that didn't work.

Otherwise, I played this hand post-flop entirely on pot odds. I went to my odds chart to decide if I should call. I didn't figure it exactly right because I was rushed during the hand. I put villian on an overpair to the board (I was right), so with 6 clean outs, I'm 3.15:1 to hit a pair. The flop bet puts $3.65 in the pot. I'm a little behind because I actually needed $4.10 in the pot to call (3.15 x his raise). I call anyway.

The Turn gives me 9 more outs to the Flush. So, with 15 outs, I'm 2.07:1 to hit a hand. The Turn bet puts $6.95 in the pot if I call. So, it's correct to call with a pot of $3.42 or bigger. Right?

Another thing about hand 2 is that Villian was AI on the Turn so I knew that he couldn't put any more money in the pot. I knew I wouldn't have to face another decision on the River.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
3) Your bet sizing is waaay small. Again, 0.50 pre, bet at least 3/4 pot on flop.
OK, Bigger bets is something I'll just have to do. I'll get accustomed to it shortly, I reckon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
DON'T CHECK TURN!!! Pot control is more relevant when your opponents are aggressive and likely to raise you at any time.
I still don't quite get this. I don't want to overvalue my hand. I've read "small hand, small pot". If I bet, don't I bloat the pot? Is Bet/Call or Bet/Fold a better line? Would the check be better if I had middle pair?

Quote:
I don't think you really get eV.
Well, my def for +ev is any hand/situation that I should expect to make me monies over a significant number of hands, regardless of one or a few losses. I know I shouldn't have asked about +ev for Hand 1. That's obviously +ev to call or even raise. But as Rilla says, I was being a BITCH. That's because I feel like a Flush's bitch. I've been getting pwned by flushes lately. In the same situation, with top set, or a str8, I've been calling and raising and just getting crushed. Villian ALWAYS has the flush. I know that now. LOL. I'm a little shell shocked. On the other hand, my soooted hole cards have not made me any flushes. Damnit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
also, sorry for being so harsh!
No worries Rilla. I'm a drinkin' man too!

I appreciate the advice. I'm gonna work on:
Proper preflop raises.
Proper bet sizes.
No open limping, ever.

Then I'll work on everything else.
Reply With Quote
Erpel
Old 11-18-2008, 10:05 AM #9 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
Erpel
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
I had heard 3 or 4X the BB was standard so I chose 3X. However, everyone seems to agree with you, so I'll start using this formula and see how the table adjusts to it. By that, I mean that most of these tables are so damn tight that they'll fold to any bet. I was getting pissed that my premo Hole Cards (KK (twice), AA, etc.)) weren't getting any action. The AA hand, I was in the BB and the whole table folded to me. Damnit!! Even on the flop they are tight, I flopped a Full House and bet .30 and everyone folded. So I started delaying a bet till the turn to let someone hit a card and the one person still in the hand will fold to a .20 bet. Damnit!!! So, I was trying to adjust to the weak tables, but that's not good poker so I'll change.
Remember that to get paid off, your opponent needs to have a hand too. Most of the time they won't and your bets will be met by folds.

When your opponents are folding too much they are giving you too much credit for having a strong hand and you can exploit that by betting any two cards or very weak holdings.

When they lose respect for you and don't give you credit for strong hands you can tighten up, only play premium hands and be more likely to be called by weaker.

Above all remember this: If you have AA or KK PF or a full house on the flop and you bet - expect folds a lot of the time. That's just normal. You don't seriously expect someone with a Jack-high nothing hand to call you do you?

Anyway, the adjustment you made was the wrong one - I think the one I outlined is more likely to be correct, but yet I wouldn't suggest you make it yet. Rather, make sure you understand why your decision process and betting sequence as critiqued by others is wrong and try to address that.
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 11-18-2008, 01:21 PM #10 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
hadn't seen the replies before i wrote my own...

1.. standard crying call w/o a specific note. i dont drop top set here often. i dont like him barreling into me after a flop raise, but i am not folding.

2.. please stop cbetting every whiffed AK. it's bad here...board is way to drawy and overpairs, sets, straight and flush draws are all out against you...and hunting for a payday. drop your AK, it sucks here.

3.. raise more pre when oop and button limps. he doesnt limp AK (w/o a note), but he will likely with JTo or 89s. you bet bigger on flop to protect your one pair hand and you dont give free turn cards on drawy boards. free cards lay infinite odds on boards like these. and, you give great implieds when you have shown you cant fold whiffed AK's and that you will take your one pair hands too far...which you have shown.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 01:58 PM #11 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you bet bigger on flop to protect your one pair hand and you dont give free turn cards on drawy boards. free cards lay infinite odds on boards like these.
doesn't apply in unlimited hold'em
Reply With Quote
kettleofish
Old 11-18-2008, 02:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
kettleofish's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Helllllo Richard
Posts: 333
kettleofish
hand 2: Villain doesn't have enough money behind to get away with floating AK here. Not to mention the times when u *don't* have 6 clean outs. You can't just put villain on an overpair to the board here. Just pitch it on the flop (i wouldn't even c-bet here with the limp/caller and a shorty still to act).
There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 11-18-2008, 02:24 PM #13 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you bet bigger on flop to protect your one pair hand and you dont give free turn cards on drawy boards. free cards lay infinite odds on boards like these.
doesn't apply in unlimited hold'em
protecting your hand doesnt apply in NL? i beg to differ. why else do you deny odds to draw? or bet flops with one pair hands?

it isnt only to pull value from weaker hands. its also to charge premium prices to hands hoping to overtake you.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 03:01 PM #14 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you bet bigger on flop to protect your one pair hand and you dont give free turn cards on drawy boards. free cards lay infinite odds on boards like these.
doesn't apply in unlimited hold'em
protecting your hand doesnt apply in NL? i beg to differ. why else do you deny odds to draw? or bet flops with one pair hands?

it isnt only to pull value from weaker hands. its also to charge premium prices to hands hoping to overtake you.
It's for value

pot control is more important than protecting your hand
this is because the bet is the size of the pot
if you put in one extra bet while behind you lose the same amount as when you lose a pot
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 03:01 PM #15 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you bet bigger on flop to protect your one pair hand and you dont give free turn cards on drawy boards. free cards lay infinite odds on boards like these.
doesn't apply in unlimited hold'em
protecting your hand doesnt apply in NL? i beg to differ. why else do you deny odds to draw? or bet flops with one pair hands?

it isnt only to pull value from weaker hands. its also to charge premium prices to hands hoping to overtake you.
It's for value

pot control is more important than protecting your hand
this is because the bet is the size of the pot
if you put in one extra bet while behind you lose the same amount as when you lose a pot
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 11-18-2008, 03:15 PM #16 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i still say you cant give off free cards. thats just suicide. but, the more important fact may be playing aggressively oop with marginal hands.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:55 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.