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10NL: 2 Pair - Value betting river decision

  
 
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settecba
Old 10-06-2008, 06:11 AM     Post subject: 10NL: 2 Pair - Value betting river decision #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is a solid player, sat down 5 or 6 orbits before this hand.

Should I raise for value? or just call?

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

CO ($8.05)
SB ($5.60)
BB ($10.33)
Hero (UTG) ($11.27)
UTG+1 ($8.09)
UTG+2 ($8.59)
MP1 ($6.35)
MP2 ($3.45)
MP3 ($5)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, Q
Hero calls $0.10, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.55) Q, 9, K (5 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.65, 3 folds, BB raises to $1.70, Hero calls $1.05

Turn: ($3.95) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.95) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero ???

Total pot: $4.75 | Rake: $0.20
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animal_chin
Old 10-06-2008, 06:17 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I call this getting 10:1 on a river bet is super easy to call. I don't think you ever raise here for value, the only thing that calls a push is a T which wins obv. FWIW I think the villian could very well have a set of 9s hence trying to get money in on the flop and checking to the J scared that you might have a T. They also could have a JT and planning on check raising you on the turn as you showed aggro on the flop. I think you were behind on the flop (or maybe some idiot with a heart draw + something i dunno) and lucky to get this far for that cheap. That being said I fold to the flop raise. Ohh I just noticed that you limped this UTG, I fold preflop. For me UTG is AQ+ and PP 44+, no way am I playing KQs UTG and no way am I ever limping UTG with anything.
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Zel
Old 10-06-2008, 07:58 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hrmm Animal's post is really good. You said you sat 6 orbits already; I take it you felt comfortable limping UTG. With KQ Diamonds.. limping UTG is a possible situation for me. I'm not sure how tight your playing style is, but with .10 cent calls, I'm not sure how great or bad it is folding KQ connectors, when you have a good table read for your implied odds.

Given that.. the villain is BB, checking with Pockets doesn't seem too out of place. Why wouldn't he isolate with QQs or KKs? Pocket 9s is what I would put him on. It looks like he was trying to protect whatever his hand was, when he was raising against the heart draw / straight draw. This hand is so unique; there's so many different ranges.

You can bluff or call on the river... I think you're beat on the river on whichever way, unless he really was playing a draw, but that is totally against a good solid player's technique. Plus he doesn't have a single read on you since you just sat down. Why would he playing against what textbook poker tells him when you've just sat down? There's no implied odds on you yet? Maybe he thinks you sitting there for 6 rotations shows that you know a lot about poker?

I think the latter is further from the truth and you're better off putting away the straight / flush possibility draw on his hand. Folding is even better than calling here in terms of your reading, but you're somewhat pot committed, so I would try to steal. A good bet is to reraise his .40 to $2 for a semi-bluff giving him bad odds to call and looking like a value bet. I think he's as afraid of the straight as much as you are.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:40 AM #4 (permalink)  
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You can't fold two pair getting 10-to-1
if you are ahead, like a complete bluff at least 5% and a weaker hand 5% the time, you profit by calling

I mean, he checked his BB
he could have Q9 or K9
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settecba
Old 10-06-2008, 04:59 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
You can't fold two pair getting 10-to-1
if you are ahead, like a complete bluff at least 5% and a weaker hand 5% the time, you profit by calling

I mean, he checked his BB
he could have Q9 or K9
that was exactly what i put him on when playing the hand. The minbet/raise from BB and then check turn, super weak bet the river, made me think about 2 pair. I think 99 would have kept betting the turn.
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Stacks
Old 10-06-2008, 05:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Don't limp preflop.
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settecba
Old 10-06-2008, 08:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Don't limp preflop.
raise?

fold?
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spoonitnow
Old 10-06-2008, 08:31 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settecba
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Don't limp preflop.
raise?

fold?
Either of the non-limping options is fine.
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kmind
Old 10-06-2008, 08:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 How can we raise river for value?

I go nitty style and call
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settecba
Old 10-06-2008, 08:54 PM #10 (permalink)  
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thanks all, i probably was results oriented. I called and he showed K9.

Also, i will start raise/folding KQs UTG. I will read some hand selection threads as well right now, so i can understand why im going to do it.
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xX zorrito Xx
Old 10-07-2008, 02:09 AM #11 (permalink)  
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if you check the turn you must have intentions of check/folding the river...

i would've fired the turn too and folded to aggression on the turn or river...
 
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al yell
Old 10-07-2008, 11:18 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 don't open limp. As played 4bet/shove the flop.
When Push Comes To Shove
 
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