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10-10 under the gun?

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Superstar

02-22-2005, 11:35 AM Post subject: 10-10 under the gun?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 22

I am having trouble playing medium-strong hands like 10-10, AQs or KQs from early position. I know it depends on table imagine, opponents style ect, but does anyone have any general rules of thumb that they like? It seems like if you raise, most anything that calls you has you pretty beat, and if you limp, you either get A) raised and put to the test or B) too many people limp in and you AQs or KQs loses value. At the same time folding these hands seems a little tight.

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dalecooper

02-22-2005, 12:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I always raise tens from any seat with my standard raise for good hands. You don't mind getting called, but you probably want to fold to a re-raise, which is 80% likely to be a higher pair. If you are just called and you flop undercards or just one over (particularly if the over is a queen or jack), you bet out confidently and you should win the pot the majority of the time right there.

I always raise AQ from any seat also. Pretty much the same deal as before - you don't mind getting called, which will usually be by AJ and KQ, but you don't want to get re-raised. Almost any flop with this hand is fine, just bet at least 2/3 pot on the flop and look to take it down early. If you get an ace or a queen that's good, but if it's all undercards it may even be better, because hopefully no one caught a piece of it and has no reason to pursue the hand.

KQ is trickier. I'll raise it from middle or late position, often limp or just fold it from early position. If you limp and it goes unraised, fine. If you get a small raise (2-3xBB) you can call and hope to catch a good flop, meaning a draw to a monster (straight or flush) or maybe two pair. If you just catch a pair of kings or queens, proceed cautiously.

Molinero

02-22-2005, 04:17 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas

Posts: 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalecooper

...but you probably want to fold to a re-raise, which is 80% likely to be a higher pair ...

I don't know about this one. Depending on the size of the raise and the player who made it, I may or may not go ahead and see the flop. I know more than one person who'll reraise with 99 or 22.

"We thought you was a toad!"
-- O Brother Where Art Thou?

dalecooper

02-22-2005, 05:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molinero

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalecooper

...but you probably want to fold to a re-raise, which is 80% likely to be a higher pair ...

I don't know about this one. Depending on the size of the raise and the player who made it, I may or may not go ahead and see the flop. I know more than one person who'll reraise with 99 or 22.

Let me amend by saying - on a random online table for reasonable stakes (i.e. not the microlimits), against a player you don't really have a read on, you can expect a pre-flop re-raise of your initial, healthy raise to indicate a higher pocket pair most of the time. If I raise 3xBB with tens and get re-raised by more than that, I fold a lot of the time, absent a specific read on the re-raiser. If I have reason to think he's bluffing, I'll call half the time to keep him honest.

Also there are exceptions for how much the re-raise is, and how much of a stack I've got, and how much he's got. Implied odds on hitting a set are good, so I'm likely to continue with the hand even thinking i'm beat pre-flop, if I believe I can make a lot of money off a set. And if he's re-raising me already, it's pretty likely I can get him all in once I hit that set. However, I do tend to proceed with caution. If I call and don't make a set, and he's still in there aggressively betting, I'll usually fold the flop.

dalecooper

02-22-2005, 08:22 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

How to play tens properly: aggression, aggression, aggression.

***** Hand History for Game 1631412368 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, February 22, 16:04:25 EDT 2005
Table Crazy about u (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 4: sommieduke ( $50.2 )
Seat 9: stressball10 ( $216.6 )
Seat 10: Jonnie11 ( $68.9 )
Seat 7: yukatz ( $73.25 )
Seat 2: maxout82 ( $40.7 )
Seat 8: TF1111 ( $22.2 )
Seat 5: themoses2 ( $22.3 )
Seat 6: Cashugh ( $57.95 )
Seat 1: LilScrump ( $56.15 )
themoses2 posts small blind [$0.5].
Cashugh posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Td Th ]
yukatz folds.
TF1111 folds.
stressball10 raises [$4].
me_slf has joined the table.
Jonnie11 folds.
LilScrump folds.
maxout82 folds.
sommieduke folds.
themoses2 folds.
Cashugh calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 5d, 6c ]
Cashugh bets [$8].
stressball10 raises [$16].
Cashugh calls [$8].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
Cashugh checks.
stressball10 bets [$10].
Cashugh folds.
stressball10 does not show cards.
stressball10 wins $48.5

Mony B

02-23-2005, 03:13 AM Post subject: three diff

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 192

well you gave examples of three different hands that should be handled very differently. first off,
10-10) raise from any position, if you would raise with JJ raise with TT, they are practically the same hand, you will most likely get one or two callers, a reraise isnt totally bad here, since if you do get reraised there is only 4 pocketpairs out there that can beat you right now so i would say raise as much as you would with JJ.

AQs) make a bigger raise,id say minimal 5xBB since its EP you have to show more strenght to get more people to fold out, AQs is a pretty strong hand and you dont mind getting callers, a reraiser you have to be careful of. On the flop bet out what you bet preflop, get reraised fold, if you get called see what the turn brings and move on from there, if he folds well then you get the money.

KQs) i would either limp, fold, or min bet, 2-3xBB you cant really get the full potentional out of this hand when you have to act first, remember your only as tight as the hands you turn over, your opponents dont know what you have when you fold so its ok to let this one go. I look at it as if im going to enter the pot, am i willing to call a reraise with this hand if i raise, if not get out cause you have to worry about that option since you act first.

RiverMonkey

02-23-2005, 04:40 AM Post subject: Re: 10-10 under the gun?

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

.... too many people limp in and you AQs or KQs loses value.

Nope.

The fact that these hands are suited and have high card value makes them valuable in multi-way pots. AQs, and KQs are strong hands with lots of limpers. They definitely don't go down in value with lots of limpers. Winning even just a few huge multi-way pots is VERY profitable.

Sykedupp

02-23-2005, 08:11 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Posts: 550

if im dealt KQ or AQ ill either just call (EP), min raise (MP), or raise 3-5x BB (LP)... I still treat them as drawing hands, AQ doesnt do you much good with a K 5 8 flop

Then again I play with fish who call my oversize pot bets because they think im overbetting a bluff

10-10 ill raise 2-3x from any position, JJ lil more, QQ lil more, etc (your chances of having an overpair after the flop increase)

Just my 2 cents

-Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by soupie

That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.

jmontis

02-23-2005, 05:37 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

KQ offsuit and AQ off suit are some of my least favorite "big" cards. They are very vulnerable, and if you do hit your top pair, any low limit table is not going to fold simply because you have that queen/ace.

RiverMonkey

02-23-2005, 05:52 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykedupp

10-10 ill raise 2-3x from any position, JJ lil more, QQ lil more, etc (your chances of having an overpair after the flop increase)

If you consistently vary the size of your bet with the strength of you hand in this manner your opponents might catch on and you'll be giving away too much info. I've heard that generally speaking, you are better off using a fixed pre-flop raise amount like 3-to-5 times the big blind.

For what it's worth, Howard Lederer advocates 5x when you want less action, and 3x when you want more. However, he doesn't recommend choosing the amount based on your hand strength.

RiverMonkey

02-23-2005, 06:15 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Check out:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...550&m_id=65556

Good article on pre-flop betting strategies by Thomas Keller .. mostly related to tournament play.

However, he illustrates some interesting ideas related to varying your pre-flop bet amount based on position and how he wants his opponents to react to the bet.

Superstar

02-24-2005, 05:30 AM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 22

Good article.

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