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[b]Pot Odds & Implied Odds[/b]

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s1nglef1sh

05-01-2007, 08:22 AM Post subject: [b]Pot Odds & Implied Odds[/b]

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Scotland - UK

Posts: 7

Good day to you all!

I've been playing Hold Em for about 3 months now, both online and some home games. I'm improving all the time by reading a lot and also from the good advice given on FTR.

However, although I roughly understand what Pot Odds & Implied Odds are, I'm looking for a book or site that can really explain the best ways of calculating them and how to incorporate that into my game.

If anyone out there can recommend a book and/or site to an enthusiastic beginner then I shall be forever indebted to you!

All the best

s1nglef1sh

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Pelion

05-01-2007, 11:01 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

I hear FTR is a pretty good site.

Pretty much any of the BIG poker books will explain pot odds and implied odds.

If you are interested in NLHE then Id probably start with Harington on Holdem before moving on to No Limit Holdem Theory and Practise and/or the Theory of Poker. You can probably get a pretty good deal from amazon for buying more than one at the same time.

Read the stickys and everything in the beginners digest at the top of this forum. Im sure something in there will explain pot odds and implied odds. If not Ill write something for it.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Da GOAT

05-01-2007, 11:24 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

yeah Pelion, i think it would be better for a noob to look at HoH first. its a nice read for your first book id imagine.

welcome singlefish!

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

djzcko

05-01-2007, 02:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 285

welcome fish! We love fish here so you have come to the right place. lol. Just do a forum search on pot odds or implied odds and you will find tons of material In short, pot odds are your mathmatical odds to win the hand vs the actual pot size. Your implied odds are the same except you consider your opponents stack size as part of the potential pot. As a beginner, don't worry about implied odds too much--just concentrate on making the right decisions based on pot odds.

s1nglef1sh

05-01-2007, 04:30 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Scotland - UK

Posts: 7

Thank you guys!

It's good to know there are some friendly pro's out there!

I'll have a good scout around the FTR forum for Pot Odds. I was actually thinking of ordering the Harrington books mentioned, guess I will definitely go for them.

Thanks once again

s1nglef1sh

minSim

05-02-2007, 11:13 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Hi there,

I have some questions about implied odds as well.

It's known that implied odds needed for low/med pocket pairs are somewhere around 15x the raise. (some say 10x, some 20x, I use 15x)

You'll flop a set 1 out of 9. So let's say you call a standard raise of 4BB. You'll have to win at least 9x4=36BB each time you flop a set to break even calling raises with these PP's.
(please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere)
With sets over sets, straights, flushes, etc. that number has to be even higher, so 50BB or more is probably needed to break even..so you would have to win at least half a buyin at least to break even CALLING. (i'm not talking about when you are the PFR)

To be honest, I doubt I'll get paid that big enough at 25NL 6max to break even playing them, let alone make them big winners. In my experience people are generally very passive at 25NL, so getting paid of is pretty hard.

Does anyone have any comments on this? Are my calculations wrong? Are my impressions of the passiveness wrong?

Ofcouse multiway and/or being the PFR are different stories, I'm just talking about a HU flop, after calling preflop.

What about implied odds needed for SC's and Axs. SC's flop well, either a flush draw or straight draw 1 out of 6 times. But draws aren't made hands yet, they'll make it after the flop about 1 out of 3.

Let's say we can play draws profitably from the flop and further. To CALL a raise with SC's preflop, you'd have to win 6x4BB=24BB everytime you flop a straight or flush draw to break even. You won't win always when you flop a draw, let's say you win half of it (either by letting villain fold, or make your draw), you'll have to win 48BB everytime then.
By letting someone fold, you won't win 48BB very often, so when you do make your draw you have to make it up, so winning 60-70BB then is needed, I guess.

That's a lot of BB's in my eyes. Again, are my calculations any good? (i.e. I don't take flopping 2 pair, trips into account)
Or shouldn't SC's be played just for draw value, but also to catch good bluffing oppertunities?
Is my conclusion that implied odds needed for SC's are higher then PP's correct?

And what about Axs. I've read people saying that calling a raise in position with them is profitable. But how can that be? Don't you need like a million of implied odds with them? Top pair weak kicker isn't a big winner, so does the EV come from making good bluffs?

Sorry for the longish post. I hope someone takes the time to comment on my questions as they cross my mind very often. Thx in advance

Pelion

05-02-2007, 12:41 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

You'll have to win at least 9x4=36BB each time you flop a set to break even calling raises with these PP's.
(please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere)
With sets over sets, straights, flushes, etc. that number has to be even higher, so 50BB or more is probably needed to break even..so you would have to win at least half a buyin at least to break even CALLING. (i'm not talking about when you are the PFR)

That number is the average. You dont have to win that each time. Set over set, straights and flushes make it harder but set vs top pair, set Vs overpair/ 2 pair, someone getting aggro or calling down with a straight or flush draw etc. all work in your favour so you shouldnt have too much trouble.

If you find someone whos so weak that they give up on top pairs/ overpairs as soon as you raise or call them then forget calling to set hunt and start calling to steal instead.

Quote:

To be honest, I doubt I'll get paid that big enough at 25NL 6max to break even playing them, let alone make them big winners. In my experience people are generally very passive at 25NL, so getting paid of is pretty hard.

I dont think you can be a "big winner" set hunting at $25NL anymore but Id be suprised if you couldnt be a winner. If you really cant then you need to be calling less out of position and more in position and start taking it away when you think either youre ahead or hes weak.

SCs and Axs are a different story. You can make an implied odds call in a multiway pot, but against most opponents I doubt its possible to call profitably heads up without being prepared to play poker when you miss (Or when you hit the A with Axs).

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

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