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$5NL: Top pair vs. trips on the board

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flyingtriangle

04-21-2009, 04:03 PM Post subject: $5NL: Top pair vs. trips on the board

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 26

no reads on this particular villain, but my table image is loose and aggressive. I've been betting a lot pre flop and cbetting every time. Most of the time, everyone folds to me. The few times I've gone to showdown I've shown a big hand like trips or a straight.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($4.25)
MP2 ($6.19)
CO ($6.39)
Button ($5.93)
Hero (SB) ($10.50)
BB ($1.67)
UTG ($4.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6

, K

3 folds, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.03, BB checks

Flop: ($0.15) 9

, 9

, K

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.25) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, CO raises to $1, Hero: ???

I know this is not normally a hand you want to complete the SB with, but this table had been so weak/passive, that I figured it might be worth a shot to try to get in and take the pot away. On the flop, I was thinking maybe we each have a king, but my kicker is no good. When the other player re-raised after another 9 came on the turn, I wasn't sure whether I should give him credit for quads and lay it down, or if the chances of a chopped pot with boat against boat justified calling.

Thoughts?

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Micro2Macro

04-21-2009, 04:11 PM

#2 (permalink)

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fold preflop, but if you're going to play this hand raise>fold. - - - i didn't notice the cutoff completed so I wouldn't advocate raising ever unless you're blind v blind against a nit or you have a super read on the co that he limp calls raises and folds every flop unless he has tptk or better or something

why are you check raising the turn?

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surviva316

04-21-2009, 04:17 PM

#3 (permalink)

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surviva316 will become famous soon enough

as far as your thinking PF i don't think this is a good time to complete. i know that you play looser against tight players, but i don't know if you should take this as religion.
K6o OOP in a multi-way, limped pot is tough to play against ANY opponents. let me say that again, you're 1) Out of position, 2) in a 4-way pot and 3) it is limped. I don't see you taking too many dead pots, and if you hit the flop, you're likely to have the second best hand. fold and wait for a better opportunity (especially seeing as how you're working with such a small pot)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

flyingtriangle

04-21-2009, 04:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

why are you check raising the turn?

On the flop, i felt the most likely hand the other player had was a king with a better kicker. I thought by check/raising on the turn, I might be able to represent a 9 and get them to fold.

surviva316

04-21-2009, 04:22 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingtriangle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

why are you check raising the turn?

On the flop, i felt the most likely hand the other player had was a king with a better kicker. I thought by check/raising on the turn, I might be able to represent a 9 and get them to fold.

using the c/r on this board as a bluff seems like a very unlikely play to me. i support checking this turn obviously because betting would be a donk lead, but maybe it's simply better to call here and extract on the river? (i think lesser hands are almost always folding to a c/r here and better hands are ALWAYS calling here [if you have AA's are you folding here because you think this c/r represents a 9?])

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

Ragnar4

04-21-2009, 05:40 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

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Yeti Theorem, right?

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

surviva316

04-22-2009, 04:33 AM

#7 (permalink)

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maybe this is a good time to get clarification on the yeti theorem. i know that it says that people don't ever fold full houses, but is it saying that YOU ALSO should never fold full houses (which i've done before and have wondered if i made the right play), or is it the simpler, don't ever bluff someone w a boat because they won't fold, and if you have a better boat just bet out 'cause you'll get value 100% of time (which i already do anway)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

LawDude

04-22-2009, 07:05 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by surviva316

I've folded full houses before, although it's usually been in the situation where there's 2 pair on the board and I have been able to pin the Villain (or one of several villains) on the higher full house. I think I have also folded a couple of them formed with a low pocket pair and trips on the board or with low pair and the trips, where the betting convinced me that someone had a higher boat or quads.

Fnord

04-22-2009, 08:47 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Call turn, donk river.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

dtamburin

04-22-2009, 01:02 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Posts: 65

I poker stoved this by what I thought he can possibly have and limped in with. Everything I gave him at least gives him a FH and you still have 56% equity. If you start adding things like Ax then your equity only gets better.

If someone disagrees with the range I put him on, please comment and say why. I'm working on my ranges. I went with the thought that he is pretty loose, as commented.

Board: 9d 9h 9s Kh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.305% 28.54% 27.77% 1419 1380.50 { Kd6c }
Hand 1: 43.695% 15.93% 27.77% 792 1380.50 { 77-22, A9s, KTs-K2s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, A9o, KTo-K2o, Q9o, J9o, T9o }

On another note, even with your 0.20 cent turn raise your not committed. So if your fearful, you could lay it down.

surviva316

04-22-2009, 03:51 PM

#11 (permalink)

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wtf knows what his range is. all we know is that this is a way ahead/tied/way behind situation and being aggressive isn't going to get us anywhere. call his turn bet and bet on the river for value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

amir is cool

04-22-2009, 08:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

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by the time you're at the turn you've basically got the 3rd nuts but you can safely eliminate the second nuts, pocket aces, because that would have been an easy pfr from villain.

so you've got the second nuts.

I would call the turn bet and bet out the river like fnord said.

you're way ahead of most of his holdings here.

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wdna13

04-22-2009, 09:55 PM

#13 (permalink)

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In my opinion, villain had NO better hand than yours,
1st winning hand = 9x, on the flop, he would bet higher than 0.05, if he want catch you, he would check and wait your bluff.
2nd and 3rd winning hand = KK and AA, he would raised on the preflop, or waiting your bluff agian.
So, he had NO better hand, for my poor experience, he would have middle pair, like 77 to JJ.
So, I would go All-in or at least call him.
Thanks......

siltstrider

04-23-2009, 04:08 AM

#14 (permalink)

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I'm trying to understand this sort of thing to get better myself, so don't take this as advice, just the way I'm thinking. In fact, if anyone could correct me, I'd appreciate it a lot:

The only way he can win here is with a 9, pocket kings, or pocket aces. If he has one king, you tie. Do you people really need ranges in this situation? If he had pocket kings or pocket aces, he wouldn't have limped.

The only thing that beats you is a nine in his hole, which is so incredibly unlikely that getting it in seems like the best thing to do here.

If he's the type of player to limp something with 9x from the CO without getting odds from other limpers, and without raising, then we know he's a bad player who may try to scare you by bluff raising, right?

And if he's a good player, no 9x hand is going to be in his limping range. He'd be raising or folding, not opening with a limp. I especially doubt he would be minbetting the flop and turn.

From this, we can tell without a doubt he's not a particularly skilled player. If he could have 9x in his range right now, then his range so wide he could have anything and one shouldn't have to worry about this phantom 9.

04-23-2009, 05:32 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Call turn, donk river.

are we folding to a shove?

surviva316

04-23-2009, 03:55 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Call turn, donk river.

are we folding to a shove?

i vote yes on this. a hero call is essentially for a chance at half the pot. I don't think even the weakest opponent is betting and calling raises and then eventually jam raising the river on a stone cold bluff/medium pocket pairs

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

Robb

04-23-2009, 04:27 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Call turn, donk river.

are we folding to a shove?

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flyingtriangle

04-23-2009, 06:37 PM

#18 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 26

Thanks, all, for the input.

In actuality, I called him on the turn, the river was a blank, I checked, he bet about $2, and I called. I can post the result later if anyone is interested.

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$5NL: Top pair vs. trips on the board

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