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$2NL 9Max 2nd nuts against fish

  
 
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scfc_andy15
Old 03-28-2010, 09:40 PM     Post subject: $2NL 9Max 2nd nuts against fish #1 (permalink)  
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No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($4.72)
SB ($1.77)
BB ($5.20)
UTG ($3.29)
UTG+1 ($0.86)
MP1 ($0.54)
MP2 ($2.38)
CO ($1.94)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K
4 folds, CO calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.08, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.23) 7, J, 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.19, Hero raises $0.65, BB calls $0.46
Turn: ($1.53) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
River: ($1.53) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $0.26, Hero calls $0.26
Total pot: $2.05

CO limps and I raise my standard raise (4x plus x for every limper) I am doing this as CO has limp folded a hell of a lot and I have position. Wasnt suprised the BB called as he basically has a been one of my targets at this table. He was running at 57/25/12 at just over 100 hands and being a general fish.

Pre-flop - Range is very wide (22-99, 32s+, 42s+, 52s+, J7s+, Q7s+, K5s+, A2s+, 32o+, 42o+, 85o+, Q8o+, K7o+, A2o+)
My equity against his range is 57.113%, judging by the fact he has a high 3 bet percentage I am taking 1010+, AQs+ and AKo out of his range.
Flop - I hit a great flop for my hand J 7 4 all clubs TPGK with the second nut flush draw and he donks into me for just under pot, I have put his donking range at (44, 77-99, 7J-AJ(all jacks in previous range), 56, Clubs, AcXo, QcXo, 47-A7(all sevens in previous range), KQ, AQ) My hands equity has gone up to 71.349% against this range, and I decided to raise which he calls.
His calling range in my eyes is (77,44, clubs, all jacks, 56, AcXo, QcXo) and my equity has decreased to 61.349%
Turn - I hit my flush and the second nuts against a fish and this is where I realise I am shit and need to vastly improve. He checks which I think he doing with his whole range, and I decided to get behind because at the time I was thinking he is only going to improve with a high club and I have the king so if the money goes in he probably has the Ace as we both are around 250 BB deep.
River - He bets out the river a tiny amount like 1/6th pot and for some reason I think he has the ace. In reality his betting range is probably something like (Acx, Qcx, all clubs,44, 77) I think that all clubs would be in his range as on second looks it does like a bit like a blocking bet. Against that range I had 43.284% equity if I did this correctly.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.284% 43.28% 00.00% 29 0.00 { KcJs }
Hand 1: 56.716% 56.72% 00.00% 38 0.00 { 77, 44, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, Qc8c, Qc7c, JcTc, Jc9c, Jc8c, Jc7c, Tc9c, Tc8c, Tc7c, 9c8c, 9c7c, 9c6c, 8c7c, 8c6c, 8c5c, 7c6c, 7c5c, 7c4c, 6c5c, 6c4c, 6c3c, 5c4c, 5c3c, 5c2c, 4c3c, 4c2c, 3c2c, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, Ac8d, Ac8h, Ac8s, Ac7d, Ac7h, Ac7s, Ac6d, Ac6h, Ac6s, Ac5d, Ac5h, Ac5s, Ac4d, Ac4h, Ac4s, Ac3d, Ac3h, Ac3s, Ac2d, Ac2h, Ac2s, QcJd, QcJh, QcJs, QcTd, QcTh, QcTs, Qc9d, Qc9h, Qc9s, Qc8d, Qc8h, Qc8s, Qc7d, Qc7h, Qc7s }

Any comments on the hand or range welcome.
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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rpm
Old 03-29-2010, 03:16 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 bet turn for value. he doesnt fold any sets, or the T,Q, or 8 of clubs (cant fold gutterball straight flush draws!) he may even call a turn bet with two pair because he thinks you have a flush and wants to suck out. as played i think you missed a ton of value on the river as well. you say you thought he had the ace of clubs so you just called. i'm pretty confident he's doing this with way more than just the nuts. i'd bump it up to say $1.30 and still expect to be called by the Qc and Tc.
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tomato paste carnage
Old 03-29-2010, 03:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I don't see a reason not to get the money in and feel good about it. Your read is that villain is a fish, and you have the third nuts. Villains calls a raise on the river with worse.

Also, bet turn for value.
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DrakaZ
Old 03-30-2010, 01:13 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 You should bet the turn - Of course he can have the Ac but on the BB, he can call with a large range of hands. I think that you can bet the turn for value.

On the river, I think that your call is correct. In 2NL, when they bet too small like that, it usually means they have a very good hand but I think you are ahead with your second flush.

You played this hand well, except that you didn't bet the turn.
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scfc_andy15
Old 03-30-2010, 01:40 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Yeah I should of bet the turn looking back but at the time I was just trying to trap him on the river and then he small bet scared the shit out of me so I just called.
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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EasyPoker
Old 03-30-2010, 01:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Bet turn and raise river
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DrakaZ
Old 03-30-2010, 03:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
Bet turn and raise river
I was thinking of raising river as well but would you call a shove? Of course he can have the flush with Qc but he can also have Ac but I still think you are right about raising the river.
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Santo2True
Old 03-30-2010, 08:16 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 everyone pretty much helped you out already, but I've just started posting and figured I'd like to get my post count up.
River bet seems like nothing more then a pot steal attempt. I raise here, not crazy but just enough to take him off his bluff, or have him call with a worse club/2pair for value.
You say he's a 3bet maniac and it seems like every fish is 3betting Ax pre, however, none of them will usually check the made flush on the turn. They are not usually smart enought to attempt a trap and this probably could have been figured out easily by betting the turn for value. Had he called the turn and checked the river I'd have been more scared here I think.
Either way, I think you did good and your ability to put your opponent on a range and determine equity means you are on the right track! something I am not yet comfortable doing =(
However, don't take anyting I say as advise. Just saying what I would do in this exact hand.
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scfc_andy15
Old 03-30-2010, 10:13 PM #9 (permalink)  
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"You say he's a 3bet maniac and it seems like every fish is 3betting Ax pre" I dont really agree with that as with 57/25/12 there are hands he is flat calling with that include A's.
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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Santo2True
Old 03-30-2010, 10:27 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 oh I know, I was just making a statement. I agree 100% they also flat with this
But in this hand in particular with all streets included, I'm just not really putting Ac in his range
But I'm also not very good at ranges yet, so like I said, don't take advise from me, that's just the way I would have played it
"Those who say it can't be done, shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it"
 
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scfc_andy15
Old 03-30-2010, 10:30 PM #11 (permalink)  
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No its fine I aint the best at ranges either, glad to get some dicussion on the matter. So you don't think Ac6s is possible?
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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Santo2True
Old 03-31-2010, 12:26 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 anything is possible... but the check on the turn tells me either 1.) he thinks he knows how to trap, but doesn't realize he's loosing all the value of his hand or 2.) he thinks his hand is good enough for showdown but doensn't want to invest any money he doesn't have to with a board like that.

now, on the complete other side, if he's been playing completely different then that and you have seen him check down really good hands in previous pots then i would take back everything I said above and thinks he plays it completely different.
In this case I think he plays it as he's hoping for the c/r on the turn and when you check through he's hoping for the raise on the river. Hard spot really, that's why I think you played it pretty well, but I think a turn bet would have gave so much more information.
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littleogre
Old 03-31-2010, 08:10 AM #13 (permalink)  

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 Not betting the turn is a typical fishy 2nl mistake. I haz hand i slow play. Not reraising the river may be an even bigger mistake. If villain has the Ace of clubs then no big deal you just got coolered.

Anyway back to the turn op gives up a but load of value by not betting. I think he gets called by the following hands.
any flush
any set
And possible str8s if villain is extra horrible
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littleogre
Old 03-31-2010, 08:12 AM #14 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 Oh another reason to raise is you gonna feel like a fool when the board pairs and villain makes a boat.
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littleogre
Old 03-31-2010, 08:16 AM #15 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakaZ View Post
You should bet the turn - Of course he can have the Ac but on the BB, he can call with a large range of hands. I think that you can bet the turn for value.

On the river, I think that your call is correct. In 2NL, when they bet too small like that, it usually means they have a very good hand but I think you are ahead with your second flush.

You played this hand well, except that you didn't bet the turn.
honestly i see people make silly bluffs and value bets in that spot all the time.
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DrakaZ
Old 03-31-2010, 08:26 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre View Post
honestly i see people make silly bluffs and value bets in that spot all the time.
Yes true, or they think they are ahead with 2c.
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littleogre
Old 03-31-2010, 09:54 AM #17 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakaZ View Post
Yes true, or they think they are ahead with 2c.
or maybe even a non club jack
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JR9477
Old 03-31-2010, 10:36 PM #18 (permalink)  
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JR9477 is an unknown quantity at this point
 I think you need to rework your range from the beginning, he has a 25pfr and limp/calls. I find it hard to believe he would not raise most PP's, Ax, and possible some other suited broadways.
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scfc_andy15
Old 04-01-2010, 10:07 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Yeah he probably does raise with a lot more of his A's and pocket pairs but until I can find this out for certain wouldn't it be "better" to keep his range wider and make sure the hand is included or make it thinner and possibly not include the hand?
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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JR9477
Old 04-02-2010, 03:21 AM #20 (permalink)  
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JR9477 is an unknown quantity at this point
 I'd thin it out a bit. Sure he may occasionally have some unlikely strong hands you wouldn't expect, but at the same time he may have some crazy dumb hand (You know what i mean)

He's raising most Axs hands, that's a high pfr over a good sample. You can throw some Axs suited hands to account for the possibility of him having some Axs. Do you really think he's not raising AJ or AT pf though?
(Josh)
 
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