|
sarbox68
|
09-07-2008, 01:42 AM
Post subject: $25NL Find a fold
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
Vil is 27/17/3.8 over 94 hands. I think I should have found a fold on the Turn, but by the time I make the call, I feel committed. I just don't see much that bets the River like that that I'm ahead of, except maybe a pocket underpair. Oh... and I called v. raised in an attempt to see the SD as cheap as possible... that worked out great!  Feedback appreciated.
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($47.85)
MP ($7.70)
Button ($38.85)
Hero (SB) ($15)
BB ($13.25)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , K
UTG raises $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($2.80) J , Q , 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.75
Turn: ($6.30) J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50
River: ($13.30) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $13.30, Hero calls $8.90 (All-In)
Total pot: $31.10
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Jack Sawyer
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
|
|
i hate your position throughout the hand
iow, calling pf is a bad idea
|
My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
|
VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
|
Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
I don't like the call pre because he's so agro. I fold the turn.
You also might want to find a new table.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
sarbox68
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
I thought of 3-betting pre- ('cause of wide raising range) might be better calling...fold to a 4-bet, and bet/fold the flop. However, unless he folds to my 3b, I'd be in the same damn position sitting on TPGK on the flop with a bloated pot.
I guess folding pre- is really my best option... or calling with the plan to only proceed with two pair+ or a kick-@zz draw. 
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Most villains won't double barrel a hand that doesn't beat you, so by the turn I would be confident in my hand. But that's why I avoid the sane aggressive players.
And, after thinking about this, there's nothing wrong with the call pre. I don't 3bet because he's agro and I don't play this well OOP in bloated pots
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
Pig_Vomit
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
|
|
Pre flop I fold. Why so passive after the flop? I would have bet the flop or cr and folded to any reraise.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
iow, calling pf is a bad idea
|
WTF?!?!?!?!?!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pig_Vomit
Pre flop I fold. Why so passive after the flop? I would have bet the flop or cr and folded to any reraise.
|
WTF?!?!?!?!?!
|
|
|
|
Pig_Vomit
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
|
|
Y wtf? Shitty position and shitty hand faceing aggresion. Am i missing something? I'm probably missing something. If not folding i'd at least want to take the initiative and play back at the villian but then again i don't really understand pot control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So a check/raise on the flop is not standard?
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
So a check/raise on the flop is not standard?
|
It kills the range we're beating and gets raised by the range we're losing to.
Sar, I had a very similar hand and talked it over with a couple people. The 100NL people said nh, but I KNEW I was beat on the turn, called down anyway.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pig_Vomit
shitty hand
|
Yeah, it's only a top 5% hand with good pair, nut straight and 2nd nut flush value. Total worthless crap. I like 4 cards that all work together...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pig_Vomit
If not folding i'd at least want to take the initiative and play back at the villian but then again i don't really understand pot control.
|
Re-read that like 5 times.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
The 100NL people said nh, but I KNEW I was beat on the turn, called down anyway.
|
So then fold the turn. Doesn't make the pre-flop and flop lines bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
So a check/raise on the flop is not standard?
|
It kills the range we're beating and gets raised by the range we're losing to.
Sar, I had a very similar hand and talked it over with a couple people. The 100NL people said nh, but I KNEW I was beat on the turn, called down anyway. |
So... you'd rather call turn and river instead of folding the flop when you're behind? I think you're overestimating what people will call with here. AK a distinct possibility that wants to keep drawing to that gutshot/other shitty plays.
I mean the guy's sitting on 60BB
there should be no river
|
|
|
|
sarbox68
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
Leading the turn w/ a shove was another option when the 2nd J hit as a semi-bluff. But it's not a given that vil would double-barrel the turn, and if it had gone check/check, I'd have felt pretty comfortable calling off a River bet.
I believe the go/no go is calling the turn, as it commits me, and obv my str8 & flush draws are now dead. No way I'm shoving over the Turn bet, so I think the decision is really check/fold or open shove with hope of folding out AQ?
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
So a check/raise on the flop is not standard?
|
It kills the range we're beating and gets raised by the range we're losing to.
Sar, I had a very similar hand and talked it over with a couple people. The 100NL people said nh, but I KNEW I was beat on the turn, called down anyway. |
So... you'd rather call turn and river instead of folding the flop when you're behind? I think you're overestimating what people will call with here. AK a distinct possibility that wants to keep drawing to that gutshot/other shitty plays.
I mean the guy's sitting on 60BB
there should be no river |
Dude, the first thing I said was fold turn.
I never said calling pre and calling the flop was bad. Fnord said that.
My story didn't end up being relevant anyway.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
sarbox68
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Dude, the first thing I said was fold turn.
|
It's true, you did... he did... I read that...
|
|
|
|
Robb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,070
|
|
Good thread. Not much to add - I'm learning here, too. I think the pre/flop line is fine, with a bet or raise on the turn. But I stack off at 25nl way too often - I'm probably full of crap.
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
I think the thing to take away is I don't play with such an aggressive player with position on me. The rest of the table would have to be so horrible that he just left me alone.
Not saying he's not beatable, just that it's not worth it right now.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
Pig_Vomit
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
|
|
Alright i know i suck so bear with me...
Quote:
Pig_Vomit wrote:
shitty hand
Yeah, it's only a top 5% hand with good pair, nut straight and 2nd nut flush value. Total worthless crap. I like 4 cards that all work together...
|
My thinking hear is that villian has shown strength from UTG and that hands like AA, KK, AK, AQ, AJ, KJ and even QJ or a pocket pair are a massive part of their range (I suck at ranges and am probably putting them on too narrow a range). So i'm going to either win a small pot or lose a large one. I generaly fold KQ in an already opened pot from anything but the cut off or BB and pay no mind to runner runner outs. Is this incorrect?
Quote:
Pig_Vomit wrote:
If not folding i'd at least want to take the initiative and play back at the villian but then again i don't really understand pot control.
Re-read that like 5 times.
|
I must be missing something?
Quote:
swiggidy wrote:
iopq wrote:
So a check/raise on the flop is not standard?
It kills the range we're beating and gets raised by the range we're losing to.
|
I didn't think of that but don't we gain some value by milking an extra bet out of the villian when he misses the flop completly?
Quote:
|
Leading the turn w/ a shove was another option when the 2nd J hit as a semi-bluff.
|
Yeah as played I like this idea.
|
|
|
|
kettleofish
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Helllllo Richard
Posts: 333
|
|
I think a turn shove is worse than c/c'ing both streets. It just looks so bluffy, I'd look u up w/ AQ, which is really the only hand that u are ahead of that might fold.
|
|
There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
PV, his range is really strong. But it's still a strong hand with a lot of potential. It's not like we're going to stack off on a Kxx or Qxx flop. I hope you meant CO or BTN (not BB). I don't think folding here is terrible, especially if you're likely to spew post.
Quote:
|
If not folding i'd at least want to take the initiative and play back at the villian but then again i don't really understand pot control[/.
|
Does that help at all?
The thing is, when he misses the flop completely he's unlikely to fire another barrel on the turn because it's micro stakes. If he has an underpair he'll check behind turn and possibly call a bet on the river, so there's some value from the range you want to fold out by playing later streets. Turn/River is hardest, and where you can make the most.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
Pig_Vomit
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
|
|
thx swiggidy for the explanation (yeah i ment button lol). I am a very weak turn and river player so i never thought of it like that. I'm probs gonna stick to folding KQ in an already raised pot untill my post flop skillz improve. Just wanted to make sure that i'm not makeing a major mistake in doing so.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
