Poker Forum
Over 1,184,000 Posts!
Poker ForumAll Other Poker/Live Poker

Chop's op's..

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 151 to 191 of 191
  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    remember the WSOP with Steve Danneman at the final table? (thats the last one i gave two shits about, personally) well, he mentioned he has a group of friends that play NL on weekends, or once a month, whatever. he said he wasnt the best of his group, but wasnt the worst. but, that they played NL almost exclusively. thats what i want!
    If that isn't what your friends want, forget about what you want. Sounds like they just want to play for fun.
  2. #152
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    remember the WSOP with Steve Danneman at the final table? (thats the last one i gave two shits about, personally) well, he mentioned he has a group of friends that play NL on weekends, or once a month, whatever. he said he wasnt the best of his group, but wasnt the worst. but, that they played NL almost exclusively. thats what i want!
    If that isn't what your friends want, forget about what you want. Sounds like they just want to play for fun.
    youre right. but, i still want to find my ultimate poker group. it just might not include ALL my friends. its simple networking. i start with 6-8 guys and keep weeding out the ones i dont want to play with and adding the ones i do. it takes a separate poker night....for the serious. and, eventually, i bow out of the "poker for fun" group.

    but, like all networking, i am sifting for the needles in the haystack. it takes a long time. i just get frustrated when i thought i was going to make more progress than i actually did. /rant

    thanks to all that helped me sort through this mess.

    that got a lot of good discussion going. i say we do it again. someone suggest a topic...
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    someone suggest a topic...
    steelers or cardinals sunday?
  4. #154
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    cards. i'm from STL and am still bitter they let Kurt go.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  5. #155
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    finally....an update.

    i hit silver at stars for the first time in about 2-3 yrs. i have played so low, and at other sites, that its been so hard to accumulate enough FPPs there. but, i finally bit the bullet for some GC's i want to use to buy some electronic "equipment-aments."

    phase one of my yearly goal is already completed, and i'm seriously researching camera packages now to get back into that hobby.

    i got absolutely CRUSHED playing LHE this month. i dont think i played too terribly overall, but i'm sure i didnt play too well, either. but, holy crap, some of the hands delivered beats worse than i can remember in a couple months...and they just kept coming. probably on a quick 200 bb downer at the moment. i am off over 6 bb/100 at 50/1 6max, and that just aint right....oh well. cant wait for the rush back up. those are better than drugs!

    DON's....meh. they seem to be getting tighter as players figure out they cant do such stupid shit. we'll see where this goes. but, for now, i can really crank on the FPPs and get my shit from the store.

    next comes the family vacation. we are looking at the Myrtle Beach, SC area for a week to ten days in late July. once i feel we have the pace correctly set for the volumerofit ratio, i will book a place and set it all up. the kids are getting so excited....

    ...on that note: i would encourage anyone to establish DETAILED goals and sell them to your family. WSOP? rent? car? big tourney buy-in? whatever it is, SELL IT HARD! once you have committed to it, you will work towards earning it. and, better yet, your family will undoubtedly get behind you in achieving it once the results start coming in.

    i have made my own tracking sheets on paper and i have posted them on the fridge so the wife and kids can see not only the volume i have racked, but also the monetary progress. if i sit around and watch tv, one of them will come up and tell me they want to go to the beach this summer. i have never seen so much support for poker. use that to your advantage if your "home life" is giving you some grief. it works!!

    i would post some hands, but i've been fairly active with HH posting in the regular forum threads. this blog is really just self-indulgence

    thanks to those indulging. you guys are all pretty cool people.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  6. #156
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    362
    Location
    SCOTLAND
    My goals ? Purely a hobby, so I am happy if I make enough to cover golf club membership, football season ticket and decent contribution towards family summer vacation. This is more than enough justification for my wife.
  7. #157
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    thats awesome.....another "hobbyist." dont let these guys (not the LHE guys, the general FTR population) tell you that you have to act like a pro....you have to move up levels....you have to study your ass off....you have to manage your roll like its your rent money....etc...etc...etc. if you let them, they will try and tell you all that stuff. (wow! how am i on this soapbox again?)

    if you are a hobbyist, and no offense to any single FTR personality, FUCK THEM! they dont know your goals. and, who the hell are they to assume you MUST think like they do?

    that said, i have become more of a "semi-pro" this year. maybe i caved, maybe i didnt. but, i have established some huge goals for my family based solely on poker income, and i EXPECT to hit them. none of it is "income," but it is significant....more than just "taxes."

    i think i have finally realized i am in this for more than pure hobby. of course, i can revert back to hobbyist any time i want to, but i dont see that happening as long as LHE sucks and those DONs are around.

    its time to do something serious with this cash. i may go into more details later, hopefully my situation can inspire some others. but, long term these are some goals i will hope to knock out, too...

    - taxes...duh
    - family vacation... work in progress for this year.
    - new dSLR camera and reintroduction to the hobby... just completed! i will buy a new Canon XSi with 3 lenses in a week. if you are into photography, check out these sites...

    general forum, but the better one ive found. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php
    best site i've ever seen for pics and general education on the hobby. http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/index.htm all i can say is WOW at how impressed i am with this dude's site. WOW!

    - a new HDTV... to jump into the 21st century.

    then, after the frivolous shit...

    - maybe a new lappy... who knows, its not that important yet, but my old one is running a bit slow these days. so keep me up on Vista because thats a big factor in why this is low on the priority list.
    - pay down credit card balances from previous business failure... this should be a MUCH higher priority.
    - fund my IRA's... could you imagine the damage 3K+ could do if this economy starts to turn around? talk about make up for lost time.
    - downpayment for a newer house... this will happen due to business growth in the next two years anyway, so there's time for this one.

    anyway, i may get into the business failure story some day, but not now. hopefully, these things help some of you to set goals.........some small ones and some BIG ones. and, hopefully, some of you will see that a 35yo with a wife of 10 years and 3 kids still makes dumb mistakes, but never stops trying to get better.

    ...and keeps first things first. GOD, FAMILY, business, and poker. in THAT order.

    peace-out, homeys.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  8. #158
    GO GO GO! Best of luck!

    PS: religious? aaaaaaaargh
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  9. #159
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    sure, i'm religious, but i try not to shove it in anyone's face. i hate that. i was merely stating my priorities. not trying to convert anyone...lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    sure, i'm religious, but i try not to shove it in anyone's face. i hate that. i was merely stating my priorities. not trying to convert anyone...lol.
    I know man!

    dont take my PS seriously, lol, fine by me whatever u want to believe in...
  11. #161
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by asdpikas
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    sure, i'm religious, but i try not to shove it in anyone's face. i hate that. i was merely stating my priorities. not trying to convert anyone...lol.
    I know man!

    dont take my PS seriously, lol, fine by me whatever u want to believe in...
    i believe we have reached an impasse in our friendship. YOURE FIRED!!!!

    j/k

    we could go on and on, so i wont....lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  12. #162
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    got slaughtered playing some 6max at cake today. wow, these guys cold call with trash. and, i dont like raising from CO w/ AJo and taking 4 turds with me to the flop of Js 7s 8d or whatever when the fags just "check it to the raiser." for god's sake, someone fuggin bet so i can raise and thin it out....jeez.

    betting does me no good, but is better than checking. and, waiting for the turn is too dumb with TPTK in a 8sb pot. what a pickle. and, it happened about a dozen times.

    is it possible to be a spewmonkey with TPTK in that pot if the draw doesnt hit and they never raise the two pair they flopped?

    i swear these guys need to take smart pills just to get up to incompetent!!
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    got slaughtered playing some 6max at cake today. wow, these guys cold call with trash. and, i dont like raising from CO w/ AJo and taking 4 turds with me to the flop of Js 7s 8d or whatever when the fags just "check it to the raiser." for god's sake, someone fuggin bet so i can raise and thin it out....jeez.

    betting does me no good, but is better than checking. and, waiting for the turn is too dumb with TPTK in a 8sb pot. what a pickle. and, it happened about a dozen times.

    is it possible to be a spewmonkey with TPTK in that pot if the draw doesnt hit and they never raise the two pair they flopped?

    i swear these guys need to take smart pills just to get up to incompetent!!
    you know u have to bet it. If they never raise u with 2pair, be glad u saved money
  14. #164
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    agreed. just bitching about the slaughter session.

    sure, i lost $15 and you lost $1100....no crying for me. i would just like some cheese with my WHINE!
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  15. #165
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    you know, its funny when you dont even check the cashier or PT windows when you are done with a session. i really dont care that much anymore. i make my money, however small it is. it'll be there.

    but, i must have dropped $40 at Cake tonight...maybe a bit more. i got nailed pretty hard. (i know thats still not much) but, i was overflushed, overboated, my TP ran into slowplayed sets, flushes that hit turns waited for the river, etc. ALL NIGHT LONG!

    but, those tables were so juicy, i would have set up camp if they didnt fall apart. i havent EVER seen such loose tables. i am taking 7way action to raises and 3bets all day long. i am seeing raised flops get cold called by Ahi! i am seeing chasing like there's no other. i saw several 40BB pots and one 51BB pot. obv, for limit, thats enormous.

    i hated to leave, but i couldnt catch a cold and the fish eventually cried bedtime and went home. but, damn, if i ever see table vpip's running over 50% for FR games again (and 3 of my 4 were doing just that), i am ordering a pizza and having it delivered to my table.

    i will tell the pizza guy the door is unlocked just walk in and yell cause i aint getting up for nothin'. i will carry a piss bucket and keep it on the floor. i will wear depends. i will hire a kid to make soda and beer runs from the fridge.

    i finally saw Ed Miller's SSHE "loose table requirements" w/o a doubt. and, even though i lost my ass, IT WAS FUNNNNNNNN!!!!!
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    i will tell the pizza guy the door is unlocked just walk in and yell cause i aint getting up for nothin'. i will carry a piss bucket and keep it on the floor. i will wear depends. i will hire a kid to make soda and beer runs from the fridge.

    i finally saw Ed Miller's SSHE "loose table requirements" w/o a doubt. and, even though i lost my ass, IT WAS FUNNNNNNNN!!!!!
    LoL, chopper. That's pretty funny.
  17. #167
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    played "live" this weekend for the first time this winter. man, it felt good!

    i have never played in a live tourney before and bought into a $55, 30-man freezout. and, of course, bubbled. i had a very low chip stack from about the first hour on. there was actually some aggression for a live event. it had a great "feel" to it. because of my DON play, i felt very comfortable being short....letting the others fuck themselves with over aggression was very predictable.

    i got some hands at the right time to make some pushes with position and SD value. and, i definitely had a tight image. the table gave me a ton of respect. but, the deeper stacks were to my left so i couldnt take my image too far.

    however, once we hit the bubble (6 players), i was short again. i heard the players agree to pay "bubble boy" $10 on their own as a gesture for making it that far (apparently its customary, like chopping blinds). of course, that loosened up the bubble. in the SB, i found myself w/ QTo and the BB was an aggressive player. i looked at him (we had been chatty about bullshit and online play, which he brought up btw) and i said, "i assume you call if i push, huh?" he said yes. so, i pushed....like it mattered.

    he holds J9s and flops 2pr, but i flop the nut straight. i'm too busy telling him "nice flop" and he tells me.....FOR YOU! and, before i realized i hit the straight, the 9 popped on the turn and boated him....lol. i laughed, collected my $50 and left with a very satisfied feeling. several players made a point to come over and tell me how well they thought i played on such a short stack for about 3 hours. i just told them...

    ... that i nit like me was in his living room with a beer and a ballgame today.

    went back and played 3/6 that night when the MardiGras crowd started funneling in. i was overly aggro pf, imo. and, it didnt help i was picking up all my good stuff (AQ, TT, etc) from very ep. i raised AK utg in a hand and by the time the play was back to me it was 4 bets and there were 6 fucking players in for 4 bets! of course, i think the action is capped because i dont play live often. the guy to my left caps it for 5 bets and we take a flop of 6 7 9 two-tone. into 6 players who paid 5 bets each to see that shit, how does AKo look now? i check and its only one before it gets back. i dont know why, but i only called and didnt raise. anyhoo, the turn didnt help much and i bailed there. some chump drags this huge pot with 8To that he 3bet pre with and called the cap, but flopped the nuts as his reward.

    i had TTT cracked by two straights as i was praying, but capping the flop, for the board to pair. my only pots i was winning were small.

    but, the thing is, i was only down about 15BB's. i didnt mind at all and kept telling myself i had the edge in this game, if i could just make the adjustments and get a hand to hold up. just stay patient! it'll come. limit games always do.

    sure enough my rush hits and i maxx-it-out. i had another tight image and used it on the button to steal some pots with good outs and players that would likely fold. i hit a couple of nice hands. and, i built it all back and then some in about an hour and a half. that finally felt good.

    finished the day up only $40ish, but felt it a moral victory because i stayed patient, brought a deep stack, and made the right adjustments after compiling some reads. of course, woulda-coulda-shoulda been up $150ish based on some beats.....but who the hell knows.

    i felt great about live play and will have a huge dose of confidence the next time i go back....hopefully, in a couple months.

    thanks for reading.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  18. #168
    Nice job, chop.
  19. #169
    keep on trucking!
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  20. #170
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    HOLY SHIT!!! i finally found the sweet spot in the home game. 8-10 players. if we have less, they want carni-games. if we have more, they want 2 tables....for carni-games. i refused to play 7-nopeek, because i dont want friends long term, i guess, and because i hate those games. JJ to open/trips to win is also gay, imo. but, whatever.

    we had 9 playing NL HE most of the night. blinds were 25c/50c and people were buying in for $5 and $10. no one was deep, so i planned to BI for $10 and play a shorter stacking style. but, the play was so poor, i didnt need to be aggro. i just vb the shit out of them.....and NEVER bluffed. not once. wouldnt work. you'd get called.

    i had a hand where it checked all around all streets 5 handed! i hit the 6 on the river for fourth pair. i lead from EP with about a buck into $5. they all fold, except the last player who says, "doesnt ANYONE want to see what he has? its a buck for fuck's sake! ok, fine. i call. i know i'm beat, but i want to see his crap. i mean, i know it beats me, but i want so see what you are capable of. i call."

    he called with Jhi!!!! i take the pot with the freakin' 6 and he says he got his conformation......that i am just as bad as the rest of them. lol.

    i had AQ in ep in another hand. i raise 4X. one guy flats. another RRes to about $9ish. i look at the other guy and want him out. i feel i may be up against A7 as often as i am AK. and, i want it HU, if i can get it there. so, i shove. the original flatter, obv, calls off his stack, too. the guys are ranting and raving about how "its still preflop! we havent even seen any cards yet." i laugh and pray i hold.

    i see KQ and A7 when the cards flip. no one connects and i take a nice pot. and, again, they call me the idiot for shoving after i got raised with seeing cards. i chuckle to myself and stack my chips.

    of course, i pick up AA a few hands later and raise rather large because there were limpers. i think i go to 7X or so. they all cuss and one guy calls me off........with T7o!!!!!

    again, i have said it, these are my friends. i have tried to tell them NOT to play NL. i want to introduce LHE to them. honestly, i want them to feel they have a chance to walk out with some money.

    if they want to play NL, i dont feel all that sorry for them, but my edge is so large, imo, that they wont want to play for long. and, the part that kills me is that i wont be able to stop myself from playing hard. in limit, i can play hard as balls and still not make a lot of money against my friends. (of course that sounds stupid, but i dont want noobs to play for grocery money....i want them to play for years instead.)

    i guess i need to play some no-peek next time because if they keep it NLHE, i wont stop myself. that $10 BI left after morphing into $55. sure, i got cards, and didnt play many hands, but jeez....$10 may turn into $25 9 times out of 10 with these guys.

    sort of God Bless FTR and sort of CURSE FTR for teaching me more than the average joe. i dont pretend to be great, but i know when i have an edge. and, i know how to punish that edge when its very large against very bad players. but, i may lose friends (lol) because i wont be able to shut off my competitiveness if they keep playing NL.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  21. #171
    LoL, Chop, you won't lose friends, you'll just lose your invite to the weekly game. They'll start holding it somewhere else and "forget" to tell you where and when.

    NH's, btw. Have a great weekend my friend.
  22. #172
    Way to goooo Chops! Next step, LHE!

    Now, regarding NL, prepare for the big BAD BEATS

    yesterday we were playing NL.
    We always play the seven-deuce thing where if u win a pot in any way with 72 as hole cards, everybody gives u money.

    Well, got beat by 72 twice.

    U would expect ppl to try bluffing with the hand, steal blinds, or whatever, not to take it to showdown....

    First, one guy called off all his chips (more than 1 buyin) on the turn with his bottom pair on a 3flush board against my combo FD + gutshot + AK overcards. Obviously I didnt hit. Needless to say he limp/called a hefty raise PF

    Second time. Couple of limpers, i raise big with TT, all fold to overlimper who min-reraises. I go all-in and he instacalls, showing 72. Board came 72XXX obviously.

    Both of them said similar things to... "I thought i was beat, but just for the chance to win with 72"

    LOL

    no rant here, i beat them badly constantly unless i drink way too much and start bluffin or playing too loose. But just a psychological warning.

    BTW, dont think ppl realize how bad u beat them. They will always think you got lucky, they were unlucky, you are just as bad as them, worse than them, they will get u next time... Plus, they will all swear they are more or less breaking even in the game overall. On their mothers graves!

    Man, i speak from experience. I've made about 1k euros from my friends playing 10NL. We play once every 1-2 weeks, and I just crush them so baad its not even funny. Still, I am the first person they contact to set up date and time everytime they want to schedule a game. Best of all, as I mentioned, some of them still believe they are better than me.

    So, hopefully, the same will happen to you. You will crush them, and they'll keep asking for more.
  23. #173
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,008
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    that said, i have become more of a "semi-pro" this year. maybe i caved, maybe i didnt. but, i have established some huge goals for my family based solely on poker income, and i EXPECT to hit them. none of it is "income," but it is significant....more than just "taxes."

    i think i have finally realized i am in this for more than pure hobby. of course, i can revert back to hobbyist any time i want to, but i dont see that happening as long as LHE sucks and those DONs are around.
    i like it. Labels are fun.
    looks like we both found our poker-niche for the time being.
    Keep on keeping on!!!!
  24. #174
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    as for the home games, i am beginning to realize that they just dont care. the "how do you NOT play 72 just for the chance to win" type of comments flow like wine in this game. and, dont get me wrong, i dont mind beating them that badly, and i'm glad to hear they probably wont notice, i just get a little paranoid because the "edge" is so super obvious to me that i cant imagine they cant see it. sort of "the view from up here" kind of thing.

    there was an old fart playing, too. he was in his 70's....and a total blast. talk about young at heart. this guy started making himself the butt of jokes...kind of i like i like to do (take away the fire before they can use it sort of stuff). i realize he's not the typical "you must respect your elders type," rather, hes just "one of the boys. so, he fires some comment about the host's wife, and i shot back with a nice Viagra comment. everyone shuts up with their mouths wide open...not knowing how hes gonna take it ( i had a hunch he'd be cool by the way he was running HIS own mouth). he fires something back on me about "after my viagra takes care of his wife, i'll be over to make sure yours is satisfied too." holy shit the place erupted with laughter. he leveled the fuck out of me on that one.

    this old man played in that stupid structure tourney of ours and won his first shot at it. he came over to this house thursday night, bought in for $20, and had $70 in a matter of an hour and a half. he had everyone scared.....but, of course they still wouldnt fold to him. i think i got $10 off him by the end of the night, but he started suggesting Omaha to the guys. if i havent already mentioned it, they LOVED it. they were all making fishy comments about how they loved this "new" game because it looks like fun if they could ever see where they were in the hands. i was like !! 70 year old Harry had them right where he wanted them.

    he raised a hand pre in O8 and winked at me because i smiled and said, "i know two of your fucking cards." the others were completely clueless. after the hand (he scooped with a wheel), he said i would do the same thing if i had A2 in my hand. i told him....ONLY FISH RAISE THE NUTS HARRY, YOU KNOW THAT.

    everyone is so scared of Harry, i probably will fly way under the radar for quite awhile anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by daven
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    that said, i have become more of a "semi-pro" this year. maybe i caved, maybe i didnt. but, i have established some huge goals for my family based solely on poker income, and i EXPECT to hit them. none of it is "income," but it is significant....more than just "taxes."

    i think i have finally realized i am in this for more than pure hobby. of course, i can revert back to hobbyist any time i want to, but i dont see that happening as long as LHE sucks and those DONs are around.
    i like it. Labels are fun.
    looks like we both found our poker-niche for the time being.
    Keep on keeping on!!!!
    you betcha. oh, and note that your winter is becoming my summer. God, i cant wait for my weather to warm up. hope you enjoyed your summer because its MY turn now....lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  25. #175
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,008
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    hope you enjoyed your summer because its MY turn now....lol.
    you need to keep an eye on the commune - I'm migrating north in Autumn for the second of three summers in a row

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...rk-t82213.html
  26. #176
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    hard to keep an eye on that place. i am being pulled in so many directions with work and hobbies that i dont go over there much anymore. besides, all the people i give two shits about know how to find me....lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  27. #177
    DoNs!

    i've been playing some, winning mostly, but more importantly, i've really been thinking about correct strat for them.

    Thought u may wanna hear my thoughts and discuss them with me.


    Da DoN Strat.

    First 3 levels.
    -Play only AA or KK. Whatever happens.
    If raised and reraised to u, play only AA for a push. If 2 or more players all in, fold AA too.
    -If u open, open big. 6 or 7x, or bigger if table plays that way. If there are limpers, just push.

    Late strategy.
    Only push or fold. Do not call a push without a huge hand or if u are almost dead.
    Push only if u really need the chips (see considerations below). Fold all but KK or AA if someone limps or raises (push these) unless u have a read on someone as a limp-folder (still be careful and push tight). In general, play so tight it hurts, and push only with big hands in favorable situations.

    Bubble (6players left).
    Same as late strategy, with the following exceptions:
    -If 2people in a raised pot, fold everything (even AA) unless u have many chips and you can help bust a shorter stack without risking too much.
    -if folded to your SB, push liberally.
    -if folded to your BTN, push semi-liberally.

    Considerations and theory.

    Normal tourney/SnG strategy includes survival as one of the main considerations in every decision. Prize structure makes for chip accumulation another key consideration (aiming for higher prizes is +EV, while trying to fold till the bubble bursts is usually -EV). This is called the ladder principle.

    In DoNs, survival is the ONLY consideration. It doesnt matter if you have 1 or 10k chips when the bubble-boy busts. That's it, you won.

    Thus, chip accumulation is only necessary for survival. Enough to survive is all you need. The ladder consideration does not apply since there is only one step to this ladder.

    Thus, speculative hands have ZERO value. Not less than usual, but zero, since any chips spent trying to hit are wasted chips.
    Not only will you hit seldom, but when you do, besides being paid less (people will/should tend to stack off less with this structure reducing implied odds) you will not have great use for the chips you gain when you do get paid. Again, finishing 1st or 5th pays the same.

    In DoNs, if you risk chips to steal in the later stages, you should push. This is because you want maximum folding equity.
    The DoN structure rewards those who avoid confrontation. The more other people fight, while you watch from the sidelines, the more you gain. This is a concept already useful in normal tourney/sng structures. More so here, since the more people bust the closer you are to winning maximum without chip accumulation considerations.
    Thus, by playing push/fold poker, you avoid most confrontations and have no more decision making. Villains are the only ones put to the test.
    Worse thing that can happen is to try and steal with a normal raise and someone pushes. You will have to fold all but AA or KK in this situation and will have lost some of your stack stupidly. Do not allow resteals!

    Reads are important. Take note on who limp/folds and who limp/calls or traps with AA/KK.

    If there is a chance that someone will bust on that particular hand, avoid all confrontation.
    Example: HJ raises 3x in late stages, you have a mediocre stack on the btn. BB is the shortest stack. You hold JJ. You should fold.
    This should be all too clear, since even against Ax you are still 1-2 to bust. Much better to let shorty face elimination.


    I just won a DoN by folding every hand. Didnt get AA or KK, but did fold TT, AK, AQs... If i had played some of these hands, i may have lost, since people in this particular DoN were way too eager to stack off. In the end, i had 900 chips and made it. This goes to show how strategy is way different than normal SnGs. If i had made it 5th with 900 chips (3 BBs) in a normal one, i would be in trouble.

    PUSHING HANDS (in order of quality)

    -Big pairs (AA-TT)
    -AK, AQ (suited or not)
    -SCs
    -Low pairs (99-22)
    -Axs
    -Kxs

    Notice how SCs are higher than some other hands. This is well explained in Kill Phil theory. If you do get a call to your all-in, it will probably be by a big pair or a big ace. SCs fare better against this range than low pairs (big underdog vs big pairs and coinflip vs AK) or Ax (mostly 2-1 underdog vs big pairs and AK) since they are hardly ever dominated and fare decently even against AA.

    Ok, let's hear it Chops!
  28. #178
    i'll post this on the SnG forum as well, but wanted to have it in your Ops thread first!
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  29. #179
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    most of what you say is absolutely spot on. and, it should get a great response from all the ICM/math geeks. but, i will tell you a couple of other (non-standard) things that will also add to your ROI.

    - avoid regs at all costs. meaning, LOOK IN THE LOBBY BEFORE YOU SIT DOWN. if you see 2 or 3 12-tablers already scripting the registrations, wait 10-15 minutes before starting your set. they KILL games. dont get me wrong, those HUD-bots absolutely suck (their ROIs are 7%-8% on average...yours should be 13%+ even if you 12 table), but they take space away from the real dead money that you need to crush these things.

    - as for HUD-bots, steal the fuck out of their blinds. they wont defend them. they are too busy watching their other 20 tables. you can safely accumulate chips through the mid stages off of them AND they will also fold when short on the bubble. they can be a real tourney saver. of course, they can bust you, too. but, i'll take some liberal chances if i am card dead, need chips, or need to get out of 6th place.

    - push on the nits. c/r the fish.

    - the minraise is a glorious thing! to balance all your pushing, consider minraising or raising just over half your stack. say you have JTs and 750 chips. blinds are 100/200. consider raising to 400. why? because it looks like AA begging for a call. you will get called more when you push than when you "beg for action." pushing with AK is a good thing because AX will call you. but, pushing with KQ is not so good if AX calls. so, try minraising it some.

    - if oop, donk the flop HARD. most times players will fold. if you connect, look for players that cbet and c/r the hell out of them.

    - SQUEEEEEEEEZE! DONs are a haven for the squeeze play. if there are two flat callers, i consider squeezing. if there are 2-6 limpers, i consider a huge raise. and, i dont need much to do it with because you cant call when i put in such a large raise.

    - true, you should fold 95%+ of your hands early. but, as tight as these are getting (the bubble can really stretch out), you may need to find ways to take cheap shots at big hands. limping KTo late, taking a flop with 44, 78s behind limpers are ALL good ways to grab a few chips early on and look like a complete jackoff for doing it. however, dont get carried away. this is a sure fire way to bust out if you do it too much. about once or twice per tourney is probably too often. and, lean more towards TPGK hands.....not sc's and low pp's. but, those low pp's really devastate when they let you limp in and you hit a set with paint on board.

    - watch the other's stacks towards the bubble. this is the most important concept.....relative stack size. some tourneys, you can ride your stack down to under a 2 for an M. some tourneys, all the stacks are equal at 2200 chips and you still need to avoid the basement because the blinds are 200/400. when on the bubble, stay out of the basement. i will get frisky when 7-handed if it looks like i will be the shorty on the bubble if the other shorty busts out. if you are the shorty, they will tend to clam up or even pick on you. you cant accumulate when that happens w/o a real hand. so, your chances of just melting away are dramatically increased.

    - always look for a mid-sized stack to pick on, especially in later stages. they cant call you often because they dont want to go short. hammer that trend.

    - i swear offense is better than defense in these things. mix up your lines. donk some. c/r some. slow play some. shove some. induce and call down some. whatever you do, dont become predictable. they WILL catch on.

    - expect variance. when winning 60%+ of these is considered good, you will go through some BRUTAL b/e stretches. just realize your heater is coming and it will bring you back. when it feels like they are shoving over you every time you raise, just trust that they arent doing this with rags....often. people play their cards in these. you will spot the dead money. just avoid the regs and you'll do fine.

    so much more, so little space.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  30. #180
    LOL

    the ICM geeks did not approve!

    maybe its because they treated me like a donk in another thread and i told them reatards to fuck off, but i hope they'll give me some advise in the end
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  31. #181
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    you and i can refine through pm, too.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  32. #182
    KoRnholio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,916
    Location
    Canada
    I consider myself mostly a "math" player, but even I know ICM has some major limitations. The guys who blindly go by what ICM says are missing the boat quite often IMO.
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
  33. #183
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    friday the 13th? i say, HA!!!

    i have been dabbling with SNGs lately. mostly STTs. they seem fishy as hell, but i got off to a rocky start. i feel my cash games have tightened my ranges so much, i am too nitty in tourneys. however, when the stealing rounds start up, i overcompensate and get almost maniacal. that leads to both getting it in bad AND bad beats....enough to drive you fuggin' crazy. (lappy almost went for a ride the other night.)

    i took the trial of HEM, and will likely buy it for the tourney functionality alone. i hate to say that image also matters, but HEM is just so pretty compared to PT, too. the difference is like the hot chick and the fat chick. they still both like to fuck, but one looks better to your friends. i hate being that shallow, but i am what i am..........a huge boob guy...lol.

    anyhoo, my roi rebounded BIGTIME today in only 10 STTs. honestly, it felt deserved. but, i tend to ride a roller coaster in the DONs, so i expect an exponential increase in STTs.

    speaking of DONs, i fired up a set tonight being friday. i did some sucking out and went 11/12. only set i've played all week so far. so, i may tell you guys i went 91% ITM in them and have an ROI of like 60+%. dont believe that shit if i say it....lol.

    but, i would like to get back to LHE and cash, but right now am having fun with the donkeys again......and that is what poker is about.

    dont forget that. if it feels like work, you need a break.

    laytaz
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  34. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    dont forget that. if it feels like work, you need a break.

    laytaz
    best advise ever!
  35. #185
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    another 10/12 on DONs today, won the only MTT i cashed in last night, slaughtered some LHE over lunch today, and grossed my best day evar since starting my company.

    time for a beer......or four. -> -> ->

    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  36. #186
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    let me ask you guys, too...

    STT/MTT RANGE ASSESSMENTS....

    ok. as promised (tai and drmc), i am working on my ranges the best i can. i was up late last night and i think i made myself stupid...lol. here is what i came up with, but i think it needs revision/approval before it goes into practice.

    first and side note: i am beginning to see players that are WAY too tight. i think THEY think they made a "big laydown" when, in fact, it was rather poor....based on odds. conversly, i see players that fail to realize they made a proper call. they appear to be too loose, but really arent (in later stages).....they just dont know it.

    it just seems you dont need a lot of pot odds to call with some pretty crazy looking shit. for instance, if the pot is laying you 3:1 on your money, you are licensed to call with almost ATC...sometimes with 2 other players! that blows the mind of a nit like me. add in some dead money, like a pfr, and you SHOULD probably call with ATC.

    ok, here is what i came up with...

    assumptions:
    -90% of players will be stealing/pushing with at least 10% of their ranges after 50/100 blinds in STT/MTT turbos. 50%+ are stealing with 20%-40% (big range, so reads become important) in position.
    -it surprises me to find that adding sc's and gappers doesnt hurt our equity as much as i thought. it just seems to add to our variance. where we get crushed is when we overvalue our weaker A's and K's. seems nothing attacks our equity % harder than dropping our calling range from AT to A7.
    -so, in a lot of cases, i have added sc's and one-gapped sc's. but, those are for discretionary use ONLY. (dont do it everytime, even though the group only drops your equity by 3%-ish) instead, i may add only the "green" ones. or, i may pick a "holding of the day" to focus on in these spots.
    -by "profitable" i mean better than 50% equity. we all know 60/40 is still a "race" situation.

    if the "stealer" is:
    10%- we are ahead with 66+,ATs+,ATo+
    20%- 22+,A8s+,A8o+,KQ,78s+,68s+
    30%- 22+ range goes up to 55/45
    40%- 22+ range goes up to 57/43 however, if you add AX+,KJs+ to that range, you only drop to 54/46.

    dont forget about FE (fold equity). if you have a note on a guy as "limp/folder," you can really use these numbers to open up a bit and grab those chips "rather" safely. again, if he calls your 3bet-shove, you still beat his range. and, if there is any dead money in the pot, you increase your equity yet again. (which is why i was more focused on getting just barely over 50/50)

    now, you can tighten up as you see fit to get the equity you desire. (of course, you need to consider chip stacks, stage of tourney, recent images, etc. that should go without saying.)

    thats kind of what i came up with so far. is it on the right track?

    i may try and shoot some examples in soon, or expand on adjusting ranges based on preflop pot odds, too. i find the best way to learn is to put yourself out there for criticism. sort of "student becoming teacher" shit. you dont really know something, imo, until you can explain it to someone else.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  37. #187
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    here is a DON-based post that sums up how i feel about these, and where some people, like my friend, are going wrong/getting into trouble. i thank 6maxNL, 6maxLHE, and "endgame" practice for this. the fact that i have bounced around from different game to different game, imo, has made me a better-rounded player.....not a great one....but better-rounded.

    take it for what you will, if you dare to read it all...

    he asked about some specific hands. i will post HIS question and my responses, not the HH. the HH shouldnt matter, as you should be able to tell from his question what he is thinking.

    #7 Your not even limping 3s for 20 chips this early?...never if i am in early position and first one in. too risky for such a shitball hand.

    #11 How often you raising the nit regs from the sb wtih ATC?... not often from there that early. but, 56s from the sb plays well against a caller in the bb, imo, if he dares to. if it hits a big combo, i jump on it w/ a likely c/r AI. if i hit something, i donk it. if i hit a biggie, i c/r. if i whiff, i have no problem getting off it. i may steal a small blind and let him know i will take shots at his blinds in the early stages when he thinks i am tight. all that really does is give me more FE since its early. if i get shoved over, its cheap to let it go. if the flop hits a 5 and he raises my donk, i can let it go cheap. lots of pluses and not many minuses, imo.

    #13 Now Im really lost. Why you limping KTo from before the cutoff but you won't limp small pp from MP when the blinds are lower? ... because KT plays for TP better than 33. sure, 33 is "made," but we have no idea what to do if we miss a flop. with KT, we know exactly what to do when we miss. and, also when we hit, too. if i limp, my T kicker is most often good. and, limping hooks K8, K4, etc to calling my little value bets. it just earns me a smallish to medium pot far more often than 33 earns me a stack. and, i dont do it from very ep. i was in the hijack and had only one limper, so i played the off-suit version. if there were 3 limpers in front, i make sure i am suited.

    this game is flop or fold. i need TP power above and beyond much else. small pairs never do well unless they hit a set. and, you are folding the better hand more often than you think. with KT, i fold the better hand far less often, and can bet more confidently when i hit.

    i used to raise it to isolate, and saw KJ limping a lot. this keeps the pot smaller when i do run up against a bigger kicker.



    i think thats a leak in you, too, to be honest. i think you overvalue sc's and pp's in the early stages. sure, you can take some chances with them, but you had better make sure the pot is multiway, you are in position, and there isnt likely a raise coming behind you.

    however, you also undervalue broadway cards. AT+/KT+/QT+/JT+ are all decent cards to play. and the later the tourney, the better they do. they are EASY to play. they hit a flop or they dont. when they hit, they are often TP. when the pot is limped, you are so often the better kicker it is retarded. so, you play them in position, with one or two limpers, and you valuebet small....and dont stack them off. you will add 200 chips when they hit, and that can make a huge difference.

    with pp's and sc's you are looking for stacks, and you get the chance for a stack far less often. so, the pot needs to be 3+ players, cheap to enter, and you have to crush a flop to keep playing. they just seem like chip bleeders more than stack takers.

    these tourneys play to the advantage of a short-handed player more than a full ring player. these are sort of nit fests, but you need to be playing small pot hands, not big pot hands for the most part. the small pot hands (TPTK) hit more often and pay in chunks just big enough for you to keep ahead of the blinds, or the table. you will get to the stacking off later in the tourney. you dont need to take those chances right away with big pot hands. however, if it is limped, maybe 3X'd early, and i am late with several players, i wont pass a lot of chances. my favorite spot to play these is from the sb because of the ridiculous odds that position offers to take a shot with whacky shit preflop.

    think of this: when you actually do get action on your small pot hands, and hit your second pair on the turn, thats when you stack off. and, even that happens more reliably than set-mining or looking for big combo draws. besides, 56s sucks when you flop 56X and cant get it all in right there. A5 is coming along and when he turns his A, you are baked.

    lots to think about in these. but, if you keep pots small with TPTK hands until you improve beyond TPTK, you will do much better than taking chances on pp's and sc's and waiting for a dream flop. there just isnt the room in these tourneys for the post flop bluffing and maneuvering.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  38. #188
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    here's an easy tippit i was thinking about recently....

    poker is like golf in some ways (i used to play a shitload of golf until i had kids....and worked in the industry for years.)

    i used to teach beginners how to play golf. and, you talk about bad. i've seen a lot. but, its all pretty easy to correct....with a little knowledge. their swings are not fundamentally sound, their mentality is wrong, and they generally havent developed a "feel" for the shots around the green...much less putting.

    poker is much the same. in the beginning, players have the same fundamental problems. they play too many cards, they go too far with them, they dont understand a thing about "odds" and the other finesse aspects of the game. but, with a little knowledge, these flaws can be corrected pretty quickly.

    i used to tell golfers that it is easy to break 100. not too much harder to break 90. 80 gets tougher, but to take your average round from 75 to 72 is incredibly tough. you can really knock the stokes off in the beginning because just a few tips really help you make drastic improvements. but, once you are already a strong player, you have to shore up minor problems like "mental toughness" and fairway bunkers to improve because you already have the other, common stuff down cold.

    poker is, again, very similar. you can really make some dramatic improvements in the beginning with a few key tips and understanding of some basic concepts. however, to make it to the higher limits, you need to really put time into your game. you are no longer looking for big gaping holes in your game. you are searching for minor leaks. and, you are also searching to expose minor leaks in your competition. and, of course, this is not easy.....and it takes time and practice. just like golf.

    i suspect most poker players, and avid golfers, hit plateaus in their games because they cant afford to put in more time/practice. not necessarily because they are lazy. they have jobs, commitments, and priorities. yet, for some reason it becomes acceptable to understand a golfer isnt going to become an outstanding player. its "ok" for him to remain average. i think this should be the same for the poker player, too. but, often times it isnt.

    one of the things you have to accept as a teaching professional, in golf or poker, is that your students probably dont have the same drive that you do to become great. if they did, they wouldnt need YOU!

    anyway, the bottom line is: to be great at something, it takes a lot of hard work. but, it isnt difficult to become "pretty good." this goes for both golf and poker, imo.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  39. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    one of the things you have to accept as a teaching professional, in golf or poker, is that your students probably dont have the same drive that you do to become great. if they did, they wouldnt need YOU!
    NH. loved how u put it
  40. #190
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,008
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    anyway, the bottom line is: to be great at something, it takes a lot of hard work. but, it isnt difficult to become "pretty good." this goes for both golf and poker, imo.
    pretty good at poker is a nice step on the way.
    Give me greatness in 2010 though
  41. #191
    Chopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,612
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    played my first hands in over 3 days! by far my longest break in months, maybe 18 months. however, i only play micro sessions these days, not the marathons i used to play when playing NL.

    up about $12.

    back to the grind May 1st.

    grass season is in full effect here in STL and i cant see straight (good thing), so there just hasnt been the time. now, if we can get the april showers out of here for a bit, so i can get a rhythm going, i'll find the time for the pokahs again.

    anyone have a "rain go away dance?" the dang Injuns wont show me one.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All content
©  2003 - 2014
FlopTurnRiver.com
Testimonials  |   Terms & Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  

FTR is your home for Texas Holdem Strategy, Poker Forum, Poker Tools & Poker Videos
http://www.flopturnriver.com/copyscape.gif
DMCA.com
This is not a gambling website.