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  1. #76
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    i think i got your comment, spenda. and, all i will say in return is: man, you can hold a grudge. i certainly havent done anything to antagonize you, or your cronies, in months. honestly, i didnt do much to piss YOU off ever. in fact, for a long time, i held you in very high regard. and, was building my respect back because you've been rather professional lately. but, then this? i have been willing to let bygones be bygones, and just more or less avoid one another. so, if you were joking, i didnt take it as such.

    tonight: just crossed the $700 barrier at Cakey cake, and with another $25 coming in RB, i feel that's pretty nice. slowly, but surely, we inch our way forward. +20 bb's at the .50/1 tables, and about 60 bb's at the 25/50c tables.

    asp, i played some FR tonight, and they were so loose, it was like printing cash. i'm sure i made my mistakes, but the play was spewy enough with the cards i caught to really hit a session.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    tonight: just crossed the $700 barrier at Cakey cake, and with another $25 coming in RB, i feel that's pretty nice. slowly, but surely, we inch our way forward. +20 bb's at the .50/1 tables, and about 60 bb's at the 25/50c tables.
    Good job! nice benchmark crossed! Now for the 1k!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    asp, i played some FR tonight, and they were so loose, it was like printing cash. i'm sure i made my mistakes, but the play was spewy enough with the cards i caught to really hit a session.
    Oh man, i love those games! Too bad i haven't found too many of them lately...
    I played a really juicy .5/1 FR jackpot table yesterday and got 30BBs in about 3-4 rounds. 4hands i hit big and got paid by maniacs capping every street. Even though i dont usually play jackpot tables i couldnt resist 70%players/flop.
    Traffic has really gone down at party lately though.
    Playing a lot of Stud at the cryptos too, they suck at it, and the dealt rakeback is just amazing since most pots will be raked a max.

    Oh! and after our chat the other day where u were playing HORSE, i also played some today. Really fun!
  3. #78
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    HORSE is a ton of fun.

    i am not great at the other disciplines, for sure, but neither are they at some of the lower stakes.

    if one puts a little knowledge into the different games, i imagine they are rather juicy since most players are just there to gambool, imo.

    hell, they dont even play the hold'em section very well. i think there's a big learning curve that wouldnt be hard to get ahead of with minimal determination.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  4. #79
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    still cruising at cake. closing in on $800 to my surprise. must be on a nice heater, but i'm not paying attention anymore. the only reason i checked was to see if RB had paid out, and was pleasantly shocked. just trying to play my best poker.

    posted a couple hands that worked out well from today. the 2nd was a gem since i had a solid read that i could get him to fold flops if i 3bet light from the sb.

    yeehaw
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    still cruising at cake.
    good to hear, keep on running good!
    and remember a while back I thought about switching to limit? I haven't....
  6. #81
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    you still oughta consider it, if nothing else for a change of pace.

    i have been dabbling with some of the mixed games, too. i like stud, razz, triple draw. i am no fan of omaha, but like playing the horse games. of course, i dont play for any realistic cash. its just fun to see that although i'm a fish at these games for sure, there are bigger ones out there.

    i may post some hands in here from those when i get back to playing them.

    last night sucked, sort of. i played some LHE in a short session. i rocked a FR table and tore up another 6max table. however, i got pwnd hard on the other 6max table by two calling stations.

    the table went to 3-handed, just me and the two stations, and i didnt adjust properly. they were calling me down with bottom pair in the hole, and worse, but i kept trying to drive them out with anything i pfr'd with. AK/AQ, etc. and, never hit my TP, so basically i spewed hard. gave back all my profit off the other two tables before i figured out that i was being a retard.

    by the time i could have made any adjustments, the table was full again. so, i never got any of it back.

    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  7. #82
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    just broke the $800 barrier tonight at cake. granted, my roll is spread at several sites, but i primarily play at stars and cake. and, i dont think the $30 in RB has been paid out yet.

    hold on, though. i'm sure you'll hear me bitching soon enough.

    i can finally see a difference between 25/50c and 50/1. i cant pin it exactly, but 50/1 is slightly more aggressive, i think. however, its also more spewy while 25/50c is more "stationy." haha. i just invented a word.

    however, pittsburg is trying to fuck me hard tonight. if they win, its possible they cost me $45 in our confidence pool. those bastards. i just cant root for them....being a cowboy fan and all.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  8. #83
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    played some of the double or nothing SNGs at stars tonight. conclusion: GAY. they were rock farms. everyone waiting to double up so they could sit out. the best way to go may be to LAG it up in the early rounds when no one wants to bow out and tighten up once blinds hit 50/100 and players start to open up their calling/pushing ranges. but, whatev...it aint poker.

    while i dabbled with those, i opened some LHE tables. ran a nice 20/100 on the friday night donks when i hit my big draws in the FR games. like printing cash some nights.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    while i dabbled with those, i opened some LHE tables. ran a nice 20/100 on the friday night donks when i hit my big draws in the FR games. like printing cash some nights.
    good to hear! i also tore some FTP today!
  10. #85
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    cruising through the 8's and headed for 9 hundy. still on that rush, although it has most definitely cooled off a bit.

    today, i sat on a 6max 50/1 table and it quickly went 3-handed. i didnt mind because i felt i would kill the other 2. but, i couldnt get a handle on the guy to my right, and quickly went down about 15 bb's by being overly aggro into him. i couldnt hit much for starting hands, and i certainly couldnt hit a flop. i may have spewed a bit into the station, or he may have had the cards. i never found out. but, i sensed he was a station with Ahi and any pair.

    i finally caught good and repaired most of the damage to being down only 3ish bb's. in the meantime, the dude to my left was killing the other guy. i was learning by watching what THEY showed down, but i couldnt get to him because the guy to my left was more than happy to flat my raises, too.

    so, i had to switch gears. but, i hate locking up when 3-handed because the blinds and the others, if smart, will run right over you. but, i just chilled for a bit and waited for a hand or two to switch control of the table to me. thats when i made most of it up.

    anyway, station went super short...down to 1.5 bb's for the table...confirming he was an idiot. i saw him go down to his last nickle and the idiot to my left checked behind a winning hand! but, when station rebought for 2.5 bb's, i decided it was time to leave. NL shorties, i can handle, but LHE shorties are just stupid, at these levels, imo. and, since they dont offer up much money, i left.

    on the other tables, i hit 4+ 20 bb pots, more than making up for the damage. i heard one guy complaining that his AK had lost 10 times in a row...prolly cause he never folds it. but, i picked up AKs from sb and only called 3 cold instead of capping because i felt the others that limped wouldnt call 3 cold, too. it went 6 ways capped! and, i hit AKX flop. turn Q, river K and we slammed it almost the whole way. took 24 bb's there. cant beat that hand.

    anyway, the session went up $40 rather quickly after i left the 6max table. and, i considered that as much a moral victory as a monetary one.

    thanks for listening to me ramble...lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  11. #86
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    here's the hand that cracked $900 on cake...lol. i just cant imagine me being good here at tougher sites/limits...as a general rule.

    Cake Poker Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($51)
    MP2 ($54.75)
    CO ($45.50)
    Button ($161.25)
    SB ($25.50)
    Hero (BB) ($45.50)
    UTG ($19.75)
    UTG+1 ($11.25)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
    UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, MP2 raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $1, Button calls $1, SB calls $1

    Flop: (16 sb) 3, A, 4 (5 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $3, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1

    Turn: (13 bb) A (3 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $2

    River: (19 bb) 6 (2 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

    Total pot: 21 bb | Rake: $1

    villain had??? cap turn?
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  12. #87
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    alright, here we go. time to juice this thing up a bit, as its even boring me a bit. the accountability is there. the money is growing. but, i need to add several other topics to blah blah about...

    i play in a "confidence" pool during the NFL season. since thats been a bunch of fun, and no one in it is an FTR person, i may post some of my picks here since my hot streak has ended.

    LOCKS: TEN over KC, NYG over SF, WAS over CLE, and HOU over DET.
    UPSETS: BAL over MIA

    i really like Miami this season since they dont have any respect, but since everyone in my pool likes them, too, i put 2 points on BAL to take them out.

    generally, i am just putting points on the faves. not a lot of skill involved. but, i have the lead in our pool and i figure its best to make them chase me down by picking upsets correctly. when they fail, as they will most times, i gain by default. hopefully, this strategy holds for the rest of the season. but, obv, its still so early.

    we'll see.

    debate me if you wish, as i dont have any strong convictions when it comes to NFL teams. but, i dont mind talking football, either.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  13. #88
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    won the confidence pool...again. 4th week out of 7. lol. what a luckbox. it would look on the surface like i know what the F*** i'm doing.........i dont.

    anyhooooooo, i have been dabbling with those "DoN" SNGs lately. what a frigging goldmine!!! 49/77 ITM at the $5.20 turbos. my goal is to maintain a 60%-65% ITM range. i believe its doable, but luck does play a bit of a factor.

    - you cant have aggros immediately on your right. or, a push-happy shortstack.
    - and, you cant necessarily have the shorty to your left. that affects how wide your shoving/minraising range would be....since they will call wide open.
    - if you understand LHE 6max, you should do well.
    - if you understand short stack tourney strat, and/or bubble play, you would do very well. its only a matter of time before everyone is pushing.

    therefore, you need to have chips early. dont get stupid. but, get a little friskier than the rest. they WILL fold. they are only trying to make the money....they dont want to bow out early. take advantage of that fear. but, realize when they will start pushing/calling raises due to blinds getting high.

    if you can hit 2k chips quickly, you can start to be selective. if you hit 3k+, you should consider folding AA pf, as you should make the money from 3k about 95%+ of the time.

    thats all i have to say about that. i dont want to give away the farm.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    here's the hand that cracked $900 on cake...lol. i just cant imagine me being good here at tougher sites/limits...as a general rule.

    Cake Poker Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($51)
    MP2 ($54.75)
    CO ($45.50)
    Button ($161.25)
    SB ($25.50)
    Hero (BB) ($45.50)
    UTG ($19.75)
    UTG+1 ($11.25)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
    UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, MP2 raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $1, Button calls $1, SB calls $1

    Flop: (16 sb) 3, A, 4 (5 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $3, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1

    Turn: (13 bb) A (3 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $2

    River: (19 bb) 6 (2 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

    Total pot: 21 bb | Rake: $1

    villain had??? cap turn?
    nh
    capping turn doesnt achieve that much imo
    if u are behind, u lose maxm, if he has a FH. if he is semibluffin, u probably win the same when he misses and fires river desperately and lose more when he gets there

    I may have called flop raise and popped turn to his lead to protect on drawy board, but pushing value is also good there, so raising is just fine.
  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    i think i got your comment, spenda. and, all i will say in return is: man, you can hold a grudge. i certainly havent done anything to antagonize you, or your cronies, in months. honestly, i didnt do much to piss YOU off ever. in fact, for a long time, i held you in very high regard. and, was building my respect back because you've been rather professional lately. but, then this? i have been willing to let bygones be bygones, and just more or less avoid one another. so, if you were joking, i didnt take it as such.
    Come on man, you've said similar things to me. If spenda is anything like me we're just joking around.
  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    here's the hand that cracked $900 on cake...lol. i just cant imagine me being good here at tougher sites/limits...as a general rule.

    Cake Poker Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($51)
    MP2 ($54.75)
    CO ($45.50)
    Button ($161.25)
    SB ($25.50)
    Hero (BB) ($45.50)
    UTG ($19.75)
    UTG+1 ($11.25)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
    UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, MP2 raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $1, Button calls $1, SB calls $1

    Flop: (16 sb) 3, A, 4 (5 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $3, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1

    Turn: (13 bb) A (3 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $2

    River: (19 bb) 6 (2 players)
    SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

    Total pot: 21 bb | Rake: $1

    villain had??? cap turn?
    Cap the turn every time. If villian really had a monster he would wait until the turn to checkraise like a good little predictable 1/2 player. He either has a worse Ace (no reraise preflop), a semibluff that he's going berserk with, or just has it is in his head that you're bluffing and is trying to push you off it with atc. Or maybe his wife just left him. Who knows why some people play so bad? It's not your problem. I bet you are ahead on the turn easily 95% of the time. If he donks the river spade after you cap the turn, wellll I guess you have to just call. But any non-spade, non-straight card I am raising too.
    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
  17. #92
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    sometimes i wonder WHY you are better than i am, dog. then, i hear analysis like this, and well, i just dont like you anymore. you pull some sick value out of places i never dare to go.

    of course, thats a backwards compliment coming from a place of humor.

    villain has a weaker A. as i remember it was Ad8d. wtf? anything you had dominated has hit its boat by now. even i was thinking if this isnt AK it boated on me. nice call.....jackoff.

    i just kept thinking, "who the hell plays trip A's more aggressively than i am right now? my God, surely this tard would slow down."

    again, just giving too much credit to the donkeys. i've gotten over a lot of that, but there is still so much more to get over in that respect....sheesh.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Quote Originally Posted by bigspenda73
    all I can say is I hope you have a 6 yr old daughter
    sorry, not computing this one.
    He is referring to this, I assume you read something more into it judging by what you wrote further on.

  19. #94
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    yeah, i may have read too much into that based on my screenie.

    i suppose its too late to say those are just a "hobby" of mine? oh, to clear it up....yes, my daughter is 8. and, lately, she is the only person i can beat at poker. and, even she takes my Oreos.

    my bad
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  20. #95
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    just my opinion. comment if you wish, but i may not respond/debate it with you...

    these news media people are starting to piss me off. and, so is the Fed. the first story, financially, you will see today is that the sky is falling...the sky is falling. global recession looms. gold drops. oil drops. what do we do? oh no. how will we ever survive? where will we put all our money....errrrr, credit cards? (its only off 200 points....not 777. and, it opened off 500ish, so its actually UP for the day!!)

    its enough to piss me off. and, now the Fed is contemplating a record cut in rates, too? they are as panicked as the rest of US....errrr, them. (i am not as worried.) its pathetic.

    when the Fed panics, so will Wall St. haven't they figured THAT out yet? the Fed cant stop anything that is already going on. all they can do is lessen the load. havent they figured THAT out yet? and, i dont see the point. its like replacing a small band-aid with a bigger one over a wound that is already infected. ITS TOO LATE FOR BAND-AIDS! we have to let the infection run its course. putting a band-aid over it will just SLOW the healing process now.

    and, would you rather pull the band-aid off slowly? or, RIP it off bringing a more intense pain.....but, a shorter one? havent our mommies taught us anything? and, why havent we figured THAT out....yet?

    i guess we never listened to our mothers.....errrrr, paid attention in history class....now did we?

    poker related: 77/124 for 62% ITM for a 19.4 ROI at the DoN's @ stars. cant beat this money right now.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  21. #96
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    one thing i will say about playing different disciplines.......it will make ALL of your games better. the fundamentals of poker dont change. bets, raises, pushes, relative position, relative stack sizes, etc......dont change because the game changes from NL to LHE, or Stud to Omaha. poker is poker is poker.

    now dont take this the wrong way. i suck at the other games. but, it does make my overall game sharper to switch around from time to time.

    lately, i have been playing those stupid DoN sng's because the money is RIPE. i am now about 111/185 for just under 60% and i dont think thats good. but, it has netted me $150-$300 in just under 20 hours of play. its closer to $150 because i play more $5's than $10's. but, that's a bit more than i am used to the past 6 months or so. i just dont log the hands anymore to make significant money for my levels.

    also been trying to learn Omaha8 again. its interesting to see just how poor the other players are. i cant beat them. but, i know i should. just preflop alone, i should have a big edge at the lowest levels. however, i notice how much the games tighten up if you just move up to the .10/.20 level. i know that sounds stupid, but there are fewer people in the pots. they fold the flop more often. and, they raise a bit more, too. i watch the starting cards, and they play a bunch of stuff they shouldnt, according to texts, but i have yet to realize any edge based on that.

    it is a fun game, but i went back to some LHE last night for the first time in about 2 weeks, and i was amazed. the play was so piss poor. it was easy to manipulate pots and pick players off on scare cards.

    bottom line is that "break" from LHE probably has paid off a bit. and, by playing different games, i was still able to bag some dough AND learn more about poker in general. good fun. and, thats what its all about, imo.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  22. #97
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    really playing a lot of DoN's at night to pump up the BR, and to possibly cash out a good bit before Bush jr screws us by finalizing UIGEA. it doesnt say much about cashing out, but deposits will definitely disappear. that means even the bad players will stop playing. no good. but, whatevs. it may not come to fruition anyway.

    i will keep a bit of a DoN diary here since i plan to take shots at the 10's next month. maybe really jam some out once i stop working for the season in a month.

    beware, these things are streaky. variance will bite you in the ass at some point.

    but, i am currently 149/256 for 58% ITM. not great. i think 60% is about right. i am coming off a 47/82 run that had a 10/12 in it. so, it could be worse, but i think i am running a bit poorly right now. some of the play is very questionable at these things. tonight, i was 7/18.

    translates to about $7.50/hr. so, it aint too bad. but, i only play them in the evenings. daytimes kind of suck and become crapshoots with 8 players all carrying 1500-2000 stacks into blinds of 200/400 and higher. those times are gay as hell.

    still playing LHE during days and when bored with the DoNs. on a bit of a cooler. but, that was to be expected by the 2 month heater i just came off of.

    BR well over 2k now. and, i have netted $500 of it in the last 60 days. all $0.50 and $1 at a time.....laughoutfuckingloud.

    slow and steady wins the race. no doubt there.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    BR well over 2k now. and, i have netted $500 of it in the last 60 days. all $0.50 and $1 at a time.....laughoutfuckingloud.

    slow and steady wins the race. no doubt there.
    Good to hear ur doing good man! Keep it up and going!
  24. #99
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    i went 27/36 tuesday and only 11/18 last night. that makes 38/54 for 70%. and...

    186/310 for right smack-ass on 60% lifetime. up $248 overall. aint bad.

    playing some LHE right now, too. i guess i dont have many questions. but, i did run into a hand last night where i missed a couple bets of value.

    i had AA and raised. of course, i got flatted by two others. flop came K K 9 two tone. i lead, they call. turn gave third K. i lead, one raises, the other RRes. i only call (should have capped). river was a J. i check, one raises, the other RRes, i only call (should have capped). they both show a 9!!

    i thought a K was very likely because of WHEN they came alive. i have to stop thinking the nuts are out there when i have overwhelming evidence that these idiots overplay medium strength hands. i didnt really have specific reads on these guys, but i still gave them too much credit. hell, i had 2nd nuts. all i needed to tell myself was, "if they have a K, so be it. go for the 3rd guy's dead money...no way they are folding."

    oh well.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  25. #100
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    sunday nights suck for those DoNs, especially late. started 10/15 and proceeded to pick up a 9 in a row downer...lol.

    that 9 in a row put me under 60% ITM lifetime. i am now at 59.89%...lol. dont care, though. i am up $125 for november on light volume.

    after the doomswitch flipped, i felt tilt like you wouldnt believe. so, i stopped playing the DoNs for the night.

    i picked up some 6max LHE and ran super cold there, too. i had one hand that was funny.

    AQs UTG. i raise and get MP to 3bet (aggro tables). CO calls 3 cold. and button calls 3 cold!!! lol.

    flop of 7 5 3 two diamonds. i check (thinking i can get the 3bettors and overpairs to bet and raise so i can 3bet/cap the flop for value) and it checks through?!!!!! wtf? how do you flop and overpair and not fire that flop after calling 3 cold pre?

    jesus.

    of course, i check and call the turn, miss the river, and fold. so, in essence, it saved me a bet or 4. but, i still cant see how you can 3bet pre, get 2 players to call it cold, and never get one of them to fire at a low, relatively unconnected, flushy flop.

    that one befuddles the sheeeet out of me.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  26. #101
    ppl will do the stupidest things... So stupid i didnt even 3bet and went for the overcall not knowing WTF???

    2/4 Limit Holdem
    5 players
    Converted at weaktight.com

    Stacks:
    UTG ($92.00)
    CO ($42.00)
    BTN ($170.00)
    Hero ($105.00)
    BB ($58.50)

    Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is SB
    2 folds, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, BTN calls

    Flop: (9.0 SB, 3 players)
    Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

    Turn: (4.5 BB, 3 players)
    Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

    River: (4.5 BB, 3 players)
    Hero bets, BB calls, BTN raises, Hero calls, BB calls

    Final Pot: 10.5 BB
    BTN shows:
    Hero shows:
    BB shows:

    Hero wins 10.0 BB ( won +6.5 BB )
    BTN lost 3.5 BB
    BB lost 3.5 BB
  27. #102
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    omg. looks like 25/50 crap.

    nice 3bet btw. too wide for me just yet, but i really like it. and, i dont see that flop checked at my tables in a 3bet pot....ever. lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  28. #103
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    logged a bootyload today. 38 DoN's is a lot for me anyway. i am 8-tabling them now w/ no problems. ROI is 16% through 560 of them. has me up $450ish overall. the ITM is about 60%, give or take a point or two.

    i am watching some regs i find during the day, and during the night through sharkscope.

    if you read the strat articles, you will find the advice is to sit like a rock and play the bubble with a midstack. i am starting to disagree because it is what EVERY OTHER PLAYER is also doing. the way to make money in poker, from what i have found, is to do THE OPPOSITE of the masses. if they are tight/aggressive, you should almost play loose/passive and let them bluff off all their whiffs. if they are loose/passive, you should run tight/aggressive. and, so on. rocks are great for the maniacs. and, maniacs are great for the rocks and stations. the trick is to know which person is which and adjust yourself accordingly.

    although, in these DoN's the trick is more aggression than playing loose or tight. and, the aggression must be timed rather well.

    back to my point...sorry. the nitty regs all run <10 vpip. some WAY under. that is what the articles will tell you to do, but it is so wrong. a lot of these players are getting smarter and you cannot simply fold your way to the money.

    here are some regs (hiding names of course), their games played, and their ROI's.

    XXX 4294 7%
    XXX 2885 9%
    XXX 1744 6%
    XXX 6881 18% (this guy appears good)
    look back up for my comparison.

    not that i have many tourneys, as compared to these guys, and there are still a lot of players with MANY more played. i will check them tomorrow.

    point is: playing 8/4 or 6/5 or 10/8 isnt going to get the job done if you are weak/tight post flop.

    here are some tips i have figured out based on reading and a bit of adjusting (not that i am great...not a brag by any means). but, i post them here because no one will find them and i am not educating any fishies...lol. so, if you like any of them, take them for yourself and dont share. shhhhhhhh.

    - early stages, play uber tight. premiums only. steal very little. dont cold call ever. dont bluff.
    - taking a 200 pot does nothing for you when you will be trying to steal 100/200 blinds later. so, why risk it with dominated hands?

    - mid stages, start to steal a bit. look for the super multi-tablers and screw them over. if they dont 3bet you, they will likely fold the flop. they believe in ICM and "fold to the finish." take advantage. if they call you, give up...they have it.
    - maintain your stack. you will need it for the bubble.
    - dont be afraid of getting aggressive here. if picking on the right people, risk is minimal, and the benefits of taking blinds pays off when you whittle others down a bit causing them to push earlier with speculative crap.

    - late stages, must be aggressive now. if you are short, you need chips. if not, you need to be so ridiculously patient it will bore you to sleep. let the others fight. but, generally, push when you want to play pf. and, never call a push unless you have bullets or a super deep stack.
    - if you arent last in chips when it is 6-handed, dont play. wait for the blinds to force you to get active. but, when you need to remember: 49o and JTs are still generally a 70/30 dog to AK. so, dont fear getting called. you need to get in first and force them to call you with the goods. they wont call with crap, usually.

    when pushing, avoid dominated crap like QJ and KT. i would rather push 46s into a nit. if he calls, i am live. A6o sucks to call raises with so let the others do it.

    i see A6o call a 7Jo so often it will scare you. dont be Ahi because it will tilt you to lose to trash. most people dont realize the equity you have with the right ATC. it looks like you took a horrible beat. but, when you run it through pstove, its rarely as bad as it feels. use that in reverse when your M goes under 3.

    more later. not that you limit guys care. but, if you want a quick G....try them out. they arent hard. right now 8-tabling is making a 25/50c and 50/1 player about $9.75/hr. i cant beat that on the LHE tables.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  29. #104
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    crappy weekend at the DON's. went 50%, literally. about 30/60ish. but, rebounded nicely this afternoon with a bruiser...24/33.

    any LHE was meh.

    however, i did something i havent done before....

    i am in my mid-30's and dont drink much anymore. however, i joined a men's club at church (more of a drinking club that plays poker...lol) and got absolutely bombed thursday night. so ripped, i cant remember being that drunk since i've been married....9 years ago.

    i was so drunk i couldnt sleep when i got home at 1am. so, i decided to play some pokahs. usually, a death sentence, so i decided to play my normal levels instead of dropping, which i usually have the sense to do when i know i wont play optimally.

    however, i played solid poker and concentrated my ass off. i took the 50/1 tables for 40 BB's and the 25/50 for another 30. all in about a 45 minute span. i ran about 18/10/2.4....so, i wasnt showing much affect of being blitzed, imo. i knocked out a $10 DoN and a $5. showing a profit for the night of about $60. cant complain, but i learned something...

    i learned to valuebet marginal hands into call stations. i was struggling with that before, but this one really sank in because i was too drunk to give a crap. i really started to see some situations where i should be 3betting turns/rivers and c/r'ing to hopefully induce 3bets to cap. stuff like that. only one problem...

    i cant remember what i learned...lol. i only remember that i played really solid for being so drunk. i remember a light bulb went on before i crashed, but i can no longer find the switch.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  30. #105
    LOL
    be glad it didnt go the other way!
    sometimes alcohol makes us see things clearly, but most of the times we just see things more blurry...
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  31. #106
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    i wouldnt say i was thinking clearly. but, i would say i was able to harness it well...realizing i was at a mental disadvantage in the first place, and respecting that fact.

    i almost stepped up to 3/6 "to see what it was like," but, was able to talk myself out of it. so, the alcohol was definitely trying to take it's toll on my thinking.

    i woke up the next morning and thought, "phew, i cant believe i posted such a strong session."
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  32. #107
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    update for end of month...

    well done month. crushed the DoN's for 59% ITM. these are a goldmine considering the time involved. 8-tabling and 59% ITM amounts to about $8.50/hr at the $5's! low variance (overall), and a solid money maker.

    cake, only played about 3500 hands this month, but only played about 4500 in october. when i play 6max, i only 2-table. i play 4 when playing fr. so, not many hours/long sessions, but solid numbers.

    withdrew, finally, from UB. i wont ever play there. i have too much going on elsewhere. and, i doubt i play much at AP anymore, either. may as well take that off the table. in case anyone is interested, UB cut me a check by mail in under 2 weeks. thats nice turnaround.

    will decimate the bankroll soon, though. need to pay those taxes...lol. but, with the DoN's going well, i will crank that back by march at the latest.

    yay!!
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  33. #108
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    sweet start to december!

    i am up in what little LHE i've played. i havent played near the amount of 25/50 i usually play. instead, when i play, i intend to play 50/1 or nothing...barring ubertight games.

    and, the DoNs are unbelievably hot with me right now. i run 58% ITM currently over about 750 of them. but, i am on a complete tear. i am running about 63% over my first 98 of them...42 of them at the 10's instead of the 5's.

    my searching on sharkscope has revealed that my ROI, and my friend's are well above average at the 5's. and, that there are few within 1% of our ROI's no matter how much searching we do. so, we must be doing something right, and that means its time to move on up and see if we are still better than most at the next level.

    oh, i moved up. he's a pussy. (look at me...calling someone else a pussy for being afraid to move up) do you see the irony? i sure do.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  34. #109
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    havent played the DoNs much the past several days. i've goofed with some fun "challenges." i donked a couple bucks up to 10/20c fairly quickly and almost forgot how much i LOVE microstakes limit. frustrating? sure. but, oh so much fun to remind myself there are still some terrible fish coming in fresh.

    played one round of DoN and finished 5/8. not bad considering i lost my first three and had to finish with 5 in a row to maintain profitability for the round...lol. short term money watching FTW.

    played some LHE late tonight. sat in for about an hour and cranked off $40. cant beat the softness of some of the games when you see them. didnt hurt that i caught some good cards in the right spots and flopped well.

    i have a reg on cake that avoids me now...like the plague. he does everything but leave the table..which sometimes he does. but, he used to play ultraLAGgy when i was around. but, i adjusted to his ass and started calling him down w/ sd value hands, isolating him HU, punking him in bvb situations, and valuebetting him rather thinly when he started getting shy on me. lol. he stopped playing against me. now, he must have notes. i saw him tonight for the first time in 2 months and he donked with me for an orbit and shut down. he turned into a rock. he became so easy to play against it wasnt funny. he only bet when he had it. he stopped bluffing because he knew i would call him on it and throw in a river raise on scary cards. i have seen him do this a few times before, but now i'm convinced he wont play against ME. he just lets me run over him now. i cant stop laughing.

    i may dig up some hands, but i will likely just look for him tomorrow when i can remember the exact table i was on. but, it is so nice to see a table aggressor give you that much respect.

    oh well. off to bed. until tomorrow...
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  35. #110
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    been awhile since last update. this one is non-"limit" related, except for the fact that the games at both cake and stars are still super soft, imo, even at the 50c/1 level....if you adjust properly. figuring out the adjustment is the toughest part. i'll leave that up to you...lol.

    but, i have set a serious goal for the first time in a long time when it comes to poker. i have some things i want to accomplish in the next several months, and i thought the "new year's resolution" thing (which i normally hate) couldnt come at a better time.

    i devastated my br on stars with paying taxes this year, and i havent taken the time to get my money off cake, so, i am virtually starting from scratch over at stars...once again. but, this is the year that ends that bullshit.

    i will be using the DoN's for a "building" phase. and, i will supplement some LHE in there from time to time. but, with the LHE stuff i will adhere to the roll requirements my stars' bankroll will supply.

    i started with a borrowed $300. and, i have another $400ish on the way from fantasy football (quick shout out the the FFootball fish of them all....pythonic....lol...j/k) but, that all but repays the $300 "stake" from my brother. so, effectively, i will have about $400ish with which to play.

    i like Dog's br requirements of 150 BB for the highest level, but spending most of your time a level, or two, below your "highest level." and, almost always only sitting on tables with soft games (which is why you spend most of your time below your highest level.) so, i will start off at 1/2 being the highest since i have $300+. however, i will be sitting on 25c/50c and 50c/1 most of the time. as i grind it up, i will move up until i feel i am overmatched. hopefully, i will get silver status and crank off a $50 bonus or two along the way. but, i may decide to take some gift cards instead to supplement my "goals" for the summer. here are the goals, since i will also mention when i achieve them, too.

    1) taxes for next year....$1800ish
    2) new DSLR camera and a couple lenses to restart my photo hobby. (i used to shoot 35mm but stopped as the digital revolution began)...$850ish.
    3) LCD HDTV for the living room. geez, the prices are dropping these days...$850ish.
    4) and a trip for the wife. our 10th anniversary is coming in october and she deserves the honeymoon we never took because kids came so damned fast...lol....$2100ish.

    that totals $5600 to hit all four. and, here's how...

    right now, i run 58%ITM at the DoN's. i may mix 5 and 10's, but mostly will hang at the 5's for a month or two since the roll is so small again. if i play 48/day, that is 6 rounds of 8 tabling them. with 6 day weeks, that makes 288/week. at 58%, i will win 167 of them. profit of $172.40 per week on average...or $725/month. that puts me on a 6-8 month pace to make all 4 goals w/o moving up or adding in any LHE profit, bonuses, rakeback, etc.

    i've sold the wife on this, and told you about it, so now its just time to GO TO WORK. this will get tough when the grass starts to grow again, so i may bang through a lot of these over the next couple months in hopes of getting a big head start.

    just wanted to establish a place of accountability for myself. i plan to update the progress almost daily. if you have any questions, feel free to ask in here. already two days behind, so i have work to do to catch up...lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  36. #111
    GO GO GO!!!!

    u'll make it... those goals are way too easy for u!
    (meaning: u are good enough to accomplish them and have some fun while at it)

    GL!
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  37. #112
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    now, that makes me think i should have set them even tougher...lol. as if you were offering a prop bet of say $50 to make them a bit harder....hmmmm?

    j/k, i'm not much for prop bets. i'm a fucking nit. i only play with an edge.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  38. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    now, that makes me think i should have set them even tougher...lol. as if you were offering a prop bet of say $50 to make them a bit harder....hmmmm?

    j/k, i'm not much for prop bets. i'm a fucking nit. i only play with an edge.
    LOL, i never make prop bets, but lets say i'll pay u lunch if/when ever we meet IRL if u achieve those goals AND build 1.5k rolls both on cake and stars. EAAAAASY
  39. #114
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    but, i dont like mcdonald's french fries. how on earth will you ever afford it?

    dont you guys have "lunch and laid" combos over there anyway? i'll take on of those.....to go. kthx

    the 1500 at cakeycake is a sure thing. that site is so GD soft it almost hurts to play there with rakeback. but, i've also noticed stars is softening, too. they are simply TOO aggressive. you can play marginal shit and call down with 2nd pair no kicker and still scoop a 6BB pot off them when they 3barrel their QJs from MP2.

    i think this is a complex a lot of players are developing...due to forums and NOT understanding why they are supposed to be aggressive. they think that the more aggressive they are, the more they win. they dont realize they are making themselves easier to pick off.

    they are so concerned with running pretty looking stats. they want to look like a 25/20/3 because they think they will stomp all the fish out. and, they wonder why stations give them such trouble. "hey, that fag was supposed to fold his 55 to that AJ9 flop when i was repping bullets!"

    and, i always find myself saying, "get a clue, fag, at what point DO you actually take your foot off the gas and THINK about my cards, too....or the fact i may be on to your constant raising?"

    well, i guess we are all just a bunch of fags....lol.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  40. #115
    NO BET!

    I WAS thinking Mc Do fries, cant afford better! dunno about "lunch and laid", but next time i see a cute waitress i'll ask about it!
    "could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
    For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
    When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
  41. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdpikas
    NO BET!

    I WAS thinking Mc Do fries, cant afford better! dunno about "lunch and laid", but next time i see a cute waitress i'll ask about it!
    might want to consider ordering more than just fries when you ask. lol.

    i dont know if you get the tv show, Seinfeld, over there, but i am reminded of an episode where Kramer is flipping bills in his wallet and says, "big bills on the outside, Jerry."

    Jerry says, "thats a five."

    Kramer responds, "giddyup."

    i love that show.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  42. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    they are so concerned with running pretty looking stats. they want to look like a 25/20/3 because they think they will stomp all the fish out.
    Great thread.
    What would you say "good" stats are for microstakes full-ring?
  43. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkWade
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    they are so concerned with running pretty looking stats. they want to look like a 25/20/3 because they think they will stomp all the fish out.
    Great thread.
    What would you say "good" stats are for microstakes full-ring?
    thx, but like i said, players are too heavily focused on "stats." i guess my answer is: it depends.

    is your table running tight? loose? aggressive? do you have a mix, and can you adjust to the hand depending on WHO is in the pot? if so, your "stats" will run in direct proportion to your confidence level of your POST flop game.

    hmmm, food for thought.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  44. #119
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    I was thinking more long-term and using stats to find and plug leaks. Anyway, good luck on your goals.
  45. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkWade
    I was thinking more long-term and using stats to find and plug leaks. Anyway, good luck on your goals.
    its really hard to say as to what is too loose and too tight, imo. people play different styles. but, the better you learn (we are all learning) to read hands and assess accurate ranges, the better you will play post flop....and the more money you will make. the results will look like this, imo:

    - you will steal more blinds.
    - you will enter more blind vs blind wars....from BOTH sides.
    - you will test players with c/r's and 3bets.
    - you will play much looser IN POSITION.
    - you will value bet much thinner.
    - you will tighten up, but get sticky, against aggressive players.
    - you will change styles (from loose to tight and from aggressive to passive) much faster than your opponents.

    and, you will do all of this with better timing than you ever used to.

    this is the progression of a poker player, imo.

    what i would say to you is to post your stats (vpip/pfr/AF along with winrate, position, and some other misc things) in a new thread. and, let us ALL jump in with our opinions. we will find your leaks and get you focused on the right things...if you arent already.

    if you want to post them in here, thats fine, too. but, you will likely only get my opinion...and maybe another. there are a lot of good limit players in here that dont read this thread.

    good to have you here.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  46. #121
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    Hey, thanks for the feedback. I've set a goal for myself to play at least 5,000 hands at .05/.10 or below before looking at my stats. I bought a tracking program for the mac the other night, so I'm just at 200 hands right now. I can't find my copy of Miller's Small Stakes Hold'em but the starting requirements are slowly coming back to me. And I'm working through Slotboom's Hold'em on the Come for chasing draws. When I reach 5,000 hands (hopefully by the end of the month), I'll start a thread asking for opinions.

    I'm glad I found this site. 2+2 is too much information for me and Stoxpoker is over my head. I'm going to use you guys and your knowledge to get a solid foundation and move up from there.
  47. #122
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    well, 2p2 shouldnt be "over your head." there is a lot of info over there, tho. but, try and look at FTR's stickies, too. they also warrant a great deal of attention. but, the difference between FTR and 2p2, imo, is the friendliness of its regulars. we dont tend to set "rules" for posting hands. and, we dont tend to criticize the small bullshit, like converting hands "the right way," like they tend to do. we just try to offer advice. but, thats my opinion. oh, and Stox is over a lot of peoples' heads, but its still very much worth working through.

    i like Miller's SSHE so much i cant put it into words, but Stox's book is becoming a close 2nd, for me.

    5k is good to "get your feel back," but i still wouldnt put too much stock in your stats at that point. however, that would be enough for you to ask some more intelligent questions (instead of "should i 3bet AK from MP?"...lol). log those hands and post away.

    we look forward to it.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  48. #123
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    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    how are the don's going?
  49. #124
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    awesome, but i wonder about telling my secrets to the fish pond. i am running 63% ITM this month for an ROI of 15%+. i know those dont compare with standard roi's, but i can 12 table these in my sleep. for me, that makes them the clear choice. variance is almost non-existent and the bankroll is shooting forward in chunks i cant duplicate on the limit tables due to stakes.

    limit has taken a huge hit this month. lots of weird hands. but, it may be mostly variance. although, looking back, i dont crush the limit micros like i think i do. i'm around a 2 and would like to be a 4. have been steadily moving up to where i dont play a ton of 25/50c anymore. its mostly 50/1 and 1/2. i would like to play more 1/2 and mix some 2/4 for rakeback and FPP purposes, but the DONs are taking care of any lack of profit.

    i dont update here as often as i said i would...mostly because of the struggle with telling people where the money is. i certainly wont be giving any tips in public for the time being. privately? perhaps.

    although, if someone beats 100NL for a 2+, or 1/2 for a 2+, i assume this isnt worth their time at the smallest DONs where i prowl...lol. however, these are juicy and steady enough for me to promise the wife and kids some money this summer....for a trip? hmmmm.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  50. #125
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    i played some 1/2 limit today while showing my girlfriend how poker works. Mixed in with tables of 10nl, 100nl and 200nl.

    Maybe it was sample-size, but the limit table was packed with dead-nit blind money....

    as for the secret-keeping, not a bad idea! keep on raking it in - I'll probably join you some session
  51. #126
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    as ivan drago once said in Rocky IV.........i must breaaak you!

    as for the nits and dead money, you are right. if you can find a full ring game, at that level, over 25% to flops...JUMP ON THAT SHIT! i hardly ever find one over 30. 6max is where the loose-asses live.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  52. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    as ivan drago once said in Rocky IV.........i must breaaak you!

    as for the nits and dead money, you are right. if you can find a full ring game, at that level, over 25% to flops...JUMP ON THAT SHIT! i hardly ever find one over 30. 6max is where the loose-asses live.
    dude! i know ur not yet rolled, but the 2/4 and 3/6 at Bdog play like the microest of the micros with big donk limpfests like u cant believe.

    https://www.pokertableratings.com/re...hash=510350854

    cant find the hand yesterday where i raised JJ utg, got reraised by 83s, 2 more people came along for 3bets, the flop was 555, turn 3, river 2, and everyone stayed calling till the river where i got a final call from the 83 dude... MEGA LOL
  53. #128
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    part of the key to limit is finding the sites that have traditional gambooling games, too. casinos, sportsbetting, etc. lots of idiots find their way to the poker tables on those sites from what i hear. that is part of the reason i like cake so much.

    i may look into bodog eventually, but there is hardly a way to get money shifted around from the US these days.....i miss neteller so much.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  54. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    as ivan drago once said in Rocky IV.........i must breaaak you!
    Drago also said:
    He is not human, He is like a piece of irooooooooon.

    lol.

    I'm pretty sure I'm joining the limit ranks. Been studying up a couple of LHE DC series'

    Do you reckon hand reading skills learnt in Limit would help alot for your NL game?
  55. #130
    bump - happy '09 chopper :P
  56. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Do you reckon hand reading skills learnt in Limit would help alot for your NL game?
    YES, YES, AND MORE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    at least it has helped me a shitload. just for fun, i played some 2NL the other night, and read a lot of the cards like they were open book tests.

    the patterns of limit play can really help you establish the strength of an opponent's hand, imo. NL used to be "bet/bet/fold to river c/r" with me. but, limit has infused a lot more thinking into my game. i am a way better player for it.

    go log 75k hands of micro limit hold'em, reading limit specific books while doing so, and tell me if your WHOLE game doesnt jump 10 fold. i can almost promise you it will.

    and, welcome over to the "good" side. lol.

    and, thanks, Robb. you are still a stud.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  57. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Do you reckon hand reading skills learnt in Limit would help alot for your NL game?
    YES, YES, AND MORE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    qfmft
  58. #133
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    Im fully keen to start playing limit aye, still watching the DC series: The price was right by danzasmack. Might watch it again and then start on the tables.

    Anyone else got a limit blog/op thats a good read?
  59. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Anyone else got a limit blog/op thats a good read?
    Is anyone besides chopper playing limit?
  60. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Robb
    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Anyone else got a limit blog/op thats a good read?
    Is anyone besides chopper playing limit?
    aye aye!
  61. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb
    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Anyone else got a limit blog/op thats a good read?
    Is anyone besides chopper playing limit?
    this made me laugh.

    yeah, asdpikas has a better blog/op than i do. i dont update as much as i've gone back to posting hands to inspire discussion/traffic. i bounce back and forth, but rest assured i am logging as many hands and don tourneys as i can. i will do a bigger update soon. i've had a couple light bulbs go on lately.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  62. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Quote Originally Posted by Robb
    Quote Originally Posted by nice_aiau
    Anyone else got a limit blog/op thats a good read?
    Is anyone besides chopper playing limit?
    this made me laugh.

    yeah, asdpikas has a better blog/op than i do. i dont update as much as i've gone back to posting hands to inspire discussion/traffic. i bounce back and forth, but rest assured i am logging as many hands and don tourneys as i can. i will do a bigger update soon. i've had a couple light bulbs go on lately.
    well, not sure my ops are really worth reading "strategy-wise", but they may help in seeing how things work in the long run, how there are downswings and upswings, how i felt about them... etc...

    But I think, that's about all...

    Chops! your op rules! Maybe u should separate the Dons in a new section, though...
  63. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdpikas
    Chops! your op rules! Maybe u should separate the Dons in a new section, though...
    i would, but then it would land in STT or somewhere i dont frequent...or the "op" forum. i may do something there. but, i dont want to talk strategy about them.

    i didnt ever think that forums would "hurt" the game that much. but, i think either the boom is dying off or all the education out there is taking its toll on the games...its probably both. and, i dont understand why we try to "teach the masses." i have an ongoing dilemma with this concept because i dont want to ruin MY fish ponds, but i also want to learn and get better myself. and, its not fair to only take information and never give back. but, i dont understand why we try to teach the very people we are trying to win money from?

    now, limit is a little different, imo, because there is less popularity to the game. i dont think many people read about limit. but, i could be wrong. if you juice the content of a forum, for traffic's sake, it has to have some strategy in it and/or HHs for people to learn from....or no one would ever visit.

    i'm rambling because my thoughts arent very clear on this particular subject. but, the DONs dont have a ton of volume, and there isnt much room for your winrate to fall before it drastically affects your profit. so, i would rather not "teach" about what i've learned by playing them. i would just rather post some narcissistic commentary about how juicy they are and back it with some pretty graphs and proof. but, no one would read that drivvle because they would get absolutely nothing out of it.

    hmmmm, the dilemma continues.

    here's another pickle for you to chew on...

    i have friends that are more than willing to get together and play poker monthly. that is great. but, they want to play those stupid wild card games, and games where money floods the pot and there is no way to judge hand strength yet. basically, they play reckless gambling games, imo. (last night we played $2 7-card showdown. no betting. throw in your $2 and whoever has the best 5 card hand, wins the antes. sure, its breakeven, but its stupid as hell, imo). the question is: how do we shift them over to some more skilled games and keep them happy? dealer's choice...with limitations?

    thats where i think i am headed. something like this:

    everyone draws a number. the number 1 picks the game we play for the first 30 minutes. the number 2 picks the game we play for the next 30 minutes. and, so on. the list of games would look like this:
    31 (kind of carnival game)
    pass the trash/screw your neighbor
    hold'em
    omaha8
    stud
    stud8
    razz
    2-7 triple draw
    5 card draw

    and, we would settle on a betting structure somewhere close to 25c antes, 50c bets with 4 maximum raises, $1 bets on 4th streets with 4 maximum raises.

    i am just so disappointed with how the game went last night. i thought i had it set up correctly, but it wasnt at my house, so i didnt want to be rude and take control, or bitch, about where the game was headed. but, it went right to the "luckier" games that we used to play in college dorms when we were drunk. now that i have an actual appreciation for poker, i HATE games that just juice the pot before most people even get to see half their cards. that just feels like a slot machine to me.

    any suggestions? (maybe i need new friends? lol.)
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  64. #139
    Chop,

    I think you are old enough now, so i'll tell you the truth about life.... j/k

    1. Fish are fish for many reasons, one of them NOT being "lack of information"

    2. What makes a certain game more difficult is not more or less info, since 20 years ago, it is wether good players that think and study the game take an interest in it or not. Ratio of players that study vs fish is what makes a game juicy or not.

    3. All the info is out there, all about tourneys, SnGs, DoNs... Push or fold EV, bubble play, early play, ladder principle... u name it.

    What I mean by all this is that u shouldnt worry about making your games tougher if u discuss strategy. Fish wont read it, and good players will find the info, anyways, so u may as well try to improve urself...

    About your live games with friends, all i can think of is:

    -coach them a little bit
    -boast about your good results (trying to get them to want to emulate u and learn) and how the more serious games are soooo coool
    -dont make them feel stupid and dont critisize the games they like.... just "yeah, Anaconda w deuces wild is a fine game, but holdem is the cadillac of poker, dude, it's your call..." instead of "that's a crappy game of luck, play some real poker!"

    About coaching, they should show more interest if they think they "got it". Ppl wanna play those crazy games because they dont "get" more serious games anyways...

    Playing what is considered "cool" also attracts people.

    That's all that comes to mind, and looking at it, i'm not sure its worth much, but maybe it will work?
  65. #140
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    good points. and, i am wouldnt make fun of them for playing those stupid games. i only call them stupid to ppl i believe also find them a waste....like us in here.

    i also understand i need to go through a little of this "research" to find my true group of players, and it may take some time...and encouragement.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  66. #141
    Live sit n go's are fun - a lot of ppl have seen the WSOP on TV and enjoy paying $20, say, and fighting for a top finish. If you have 14 ppl, you can do a 2-table sng w/ the first 6 who crash out able to buy into a 6max single table event.

    I have a friend who runs a weekly SNG night with about 20 guys, and they run two full SNG's each night with various 6max STT's starting up as the "early finishers" decide to play. It's hard to lose more than $50, and the winners walk away with a hundred or more. Guys bring a 6 of beer or $5 to pitch in for pizza. It's a pretty cool way to introduce NLH, maybe.

    Let them keep their game, but every once in a while go for a "tourney" night. My buddy often has a 6max STT with a $50 BI at the end of the night, usually for the guys who won (or the losers who want to lose more
  67. #142
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    i hate home sng's. in fact, i dont like sng's in general. sure the don's are profitable, and the only reason i play them, but i think they suck.

    i like casual play, where we (errrrr, they) can talk and not have to pay attention. we can listen to tunes. we can watch a game in the background. that stuff.

    and, with tourneys, everyone has to show up on time, and no one can leave early until they are knocked out. they are inconvenient to a lot of people with families if played during the week. so, i am avoiding them for those reasons.....oh, and they are already overdone. if i hosted tourneys, i have a cumulative point system that also rewards regular players that i would use, too.

    "the dream" is to get off the gambooling games, and introduce skill.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  68. #143
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    I can identify with your home game problems Chopper. What my group does now is usually has a sit n go of 6-8 people allowing one rebuy or addon in the first hour. If it's a larger game of 9-10 players often we allow unlimited rebuys. That way for $5 or $10 everyone gets to play for at least an hour.

    Considering our games usually only last 2-2.5 hours, there aren't a whole lot of hands to determine who wins. So skill really isn't the largest component in determining who wins, but it still plays a decent enough role to appease me and my luckbox donk friends

    After that we play some nearly 100% luck gambool games like pass the ace and 31 for a couple bucks each.

    Maybe work out some kind of rotation. Play one orbit of hold'em, followed by an orbit of a gamboling game, etc. That way they get exposed to all sorts of luck and luck/skill games. The all luck games may be EV neutral for you, but it will appease them and make them willing to play holdem and other more skilled games.
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
  69. #144
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    good idea, korn. i was thinking of a half hour rotation, but that may play well, too.

    heres the "dream," though...

    remember the WSOP with Steve Danneman at the final table? (thats the last one i gave two shits about, personally) well, he mentioned he has a group of friends that play NL on weekends, or once a month, whatever. he said he wasnt the best of his group, but wasnt the worst. but, that they played NL almost exclusively. thats what i want!

    a group of friends that love to play cards, and eventually get fairly good. i'm not in this for the rent. i like my friends. i dont want to screw them out of significant amounts of money by playing games they dont know. BUT, i want to play the games that require more skill. i want to keep the stakes small so no one gets killed, as i "should" have quite an edge. but, if some show interest, i would be happy to tell them some basics, too. i dont mind bringing up the skill level a bit. i wouldnt mind if there was no realistic edge in these games. (i know this sounds sacrilegious)

    i just want to all be "fairly" decent at the games...a generally HORSE structure...and see who comes out on top.

    i know these guys like the non-skilled games because they wouldnt know what to do in some of the skilled games. i am looking for people i already know that WANT to learn the others and actually play some "real" cards. not just the drunken carni games.

    polyanna as hell, i know.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  70. #145
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    The problem with NLH for small stakes home games is that very often someone will lose fairly large amounts. The way my donk friends play in our sngs, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone drop 4+ buyins within a couple hours. And for my friends that would be enough to sour them into not wanting to play any more that night or perhaps even for weeks.

    At the stakes we play our sngs, there wouldn't really be a workable size cash game to play, other than perhaps a $2 max buyin, 1c/2c blinds. But even with 100BB+ stacks, my friends play so loose against raises that pots are often 40BB+ on the flop.

    I guess in short what I am saying is that with multiple terribly loose players gamboling with deep stacks, there are going to be big winners and losers. They would like the wins, but not as much as they would hate and be bitter over big losses. I'd rather have a more luck-weighted game to play, then no game at all. The fish just lose to fast in NL :P
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
  71. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnholio
    The problem with NLH for small stakes home games is that very often someone will lose fairly large amounts. The way my donk friends play in our sngs, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone drop 4+ buyins within a couple hours. And for my friends that would be enough to sour them into not wanting to play any more that night or perhaps even for weeks.

    At the stakes we play our sngs, there wouldn't really be a workable size cash game to play, other than perhaps a $2 max buyin, 1c/2c blinds. But even with 100BB+ stacks, my friends play so loose against raises that pots are often 40BB+ on the flop.

    I guess in short what I am saying is that with multiple terribly loose players gamboling with deep stacks, there are going to be big winners and losers. They would like the wins, but not as much as they would hate and be bitter over big losses. I'd rather have a more luck-weighted game to play, then no game at all. The fish just lose to fast in NL :P
    yep, this month i played 2 sessions of live NL with my friends. It was 10 euro buyin, and I won 300+ euros. That's 30+ buyins in 2 4h sessions.
    There are always biiig losers. Wether they take it bad or not is another issue.
  72. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnholio
    The problem with NLH for small stakes home games is that very often someone will lose fairly large amounts.
    i agree, and the NL example was Danneman's. i am only allowing fixed limit games for those exact reasons. and, i still saw a friend lose $40 last night in about 2 1/2 hours....50c at a time. that is why i like fixed limit games for "home cash game" events.

    they even backed off the hold'em games when i said the betting goes in increments of $1 on the turn and river. they wanted to keep it at 50c. i couldnt even begin to explain that anyone that takes a flop is headed to showdown.....with odds to suck your dick off. and i didnt even try. i just said, "ok, whatever you guys want." that concept was so far over their heads it would need an oxygen mask...and i'm sure it was over my head about 4 years ago, too.

    this may be a super long work in progress.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  73. #148
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    Yeah, they just don't get it. It's a catch-22. They don't like fixed limit because they want to be able to have fun bluffing and making plays. But they don't want to lose lots of money by playing lots of huge cash pots. And as poor, loose players, the pots will be huge often.

    So that more or less leaves tournaments, where you can buy in for a small amount, but then get a ton of tournament chips to throw around as you please.
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
  74. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnholio
    ...So that more or less leaves tournaments, where you can buy in for a small amount, but then get a ton of tournament chips to throw around as you please.
    meh. you are making me start to hate my friends.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  75. #150
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    Don't worry mon, I don't like the state of affairs in my home game either. I've come to terms with it by making it a $5 gambol while focusing on looking for tells in my friends, sometimes making plays I wouldn't just to see if they work. Mostly we all just play for something to do while drinking beer anyways :P
    Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

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